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Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

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Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#21
post #11

Trump on Feb. 15 — after Flynn was fired — saying Flynn's a "wonderful man [who'] been treated very, very unfairly by the media" https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/847587940557623296

He has no problem reversing himself at all. No surprise if he lays into Flynn now. It's unlikely that he'll admit that this is a change in position.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#22
post #8
post #2

Listen, I know it's a big deal when the POTUS lies. But aren't we used to it by now? If Trump somehow manages not to be a criminal and a crook (which seems downright impossible), it will be highly unusual for the recent history of his office. Now: other than bluster, what is there actually about this "Russia" probe? What exactly are we investigating? Whether Russia was involved in "fake news" stories? Whether Russia…

> What exactly are we investigating? Collusion between Trump/team and Russia. It's one thing for Russia to mess with an election, it's a vastly different thing if the campaign coordinated with them to do it.

It strikes me as odd that Americans don't seem to mind that a President to some extent might be serving the interests of a foreign power above the interests of the his own citizens.

Who would have thought so many Americans would have a love affair with a KGB Agent that is responsible for murder and oppression and for his entire life worked to undermine America and has accomplished that to some extent with this Administration.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#23
post #2

Listen, I know it's a big deal when the POTUS lies. But aren't we used to it by now? If Trump somehow manages not to be a criminal and a crook (which seems downright impossible), it will be highly unusual for the recent history of his office. Now: other than bluster, what is there actually about this "Russia" probe? What exactly are we investigating? Whether Russia was involved in "fake news" stories? Whether Russia…

There's the possibility that the entire basis of the Republican resurgence -- with its roots in the alt-right, conspiracy theories, the Tea Party, gold bugs, etc -- has been a Russian operation with the goal of destabilizing the US. Consider the role of RT, for example. And it's not like it hasn't happened before. Russia played a major role in shaping the anti-war movement in the 60s.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#24

As of now, it looks like nobody has taken his offer of immunity for testimony. What are the implications of this? The commentators on other sites seem to imply this means investigators already know something big.

5 people were granted immunity in Hillary Clinton's email scandal and nothing came of it.

True and similarly despite the Senate Finance Committee having requesting exactly what the IRS did, target, Issa never offered Republican appointed Lois Lerner immunity. Republicans never charged her with anything but passed a contempt citation to cover their asses.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#25
post #2

Listen, I know it's a big deal when the POTUS lies. But aren't we used to it by now? If Trump somehow manages not to be a criminal and a crook (which seems downright impossible), it will be highly unusual for the recent history of his office. Now: other than bluster, what is there actually about this "Russia" probe? What exactly are we investigating? Whether Russia was involved in "fake news" stories? Whether Russia…

Uh, no. Aside from the fact that collusion between a foreign government and a presidential campaign would be extremely problematic that's not the major issue. The major allegation on the table right now is that the Russian government offered Trump a sizeable share of Rosneft, the Russian national petrochemical corporation, in exchange for dropping the sanctions against Russia due to the conflict in Ukraine, and both…

If what you are saying is true, I'm wrong and that's great. I thought that the Steele dossier was only being discussed (let alone investigated) on the Senate side of the Hill; I hadn't heard about the House Intel committee taking it up. I understood that the House side was still just about the "election hacking."

Do you have a source?

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#26
post #12
post #2

Listen, I know it's a big deal when the POTUS lies. But aren't we used to it by now? If Trump somehow manages not to be a criminal and a crook (which seems downright impossible), it will be highly unusual for the recent history of his office. Now: other than bluster, what is there actually about this "Russia" probe? What exactly are we investigating? Whether Russia was involved in "fake news" stories? Whether Russia…

The investigation is about whether or not there was collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

There were certainly contacts with Russian agents. What isn't clear is who knew that the people they were dealing with were Russian agents, rather than Russian businesspeople.

Edit: And graft vs treason, which can be a hard call.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#27
post #2

Listen, I know it's a big deal when the POTUS lies. But aren't we used to it by now? If Trump somehow manages not to be a criminal and a crook (which seems downright impossible), it will be highly unusual for the recent history of his office. Now: other than bluster, what is there actually about this "Russia" probe? What exactly are we investigating? Whether Russia was involved in "fake news" stories? Whether Russia…

My take is that the "hacked the election" is mostly a right-wing framing.

What's much more interesting is evidence of collusion: money changing hands in undisclosed ways, policies changing dramatically after secret meetings, means of blackmail, etc. The first two wouldn't surprise me at all at this point.

The point being: if a foreign - hostile - state has substantial, non-disclosed power over US executive branch, that's a very big deal, and there's a number of laws meant to prevent exactly that sort of thing. The speculation is that at least one of these laws has been broken - that's much more damning than evidence of troll armies trying to sway votes.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#28
post #2

Listen, I know it's a big deal when the POTUS lies. But aren't we used to it by now? If Trump somehow manages not to be a criminal and a crook (which seems downright impossible), it will be highly unusual for the recent history of his office. Now: other than bluster, what is there actually about this "Russia" probe? What exactly are we investigating? Whether Russia was involved in "fake news" stories? Whether Russia…

Uh, no. Aside from the fact that collusion between a foreign government and a presidential campaign would be extremely problematic that's not the major issue. The major allegation on the table right now is that the Russian government offered Trump a sizeable share of Rosneft, the Russian national petrochemical corporation, in exchange for dropping the sanctions against Russia due to the conflict in Ukraine, and both…

Wow. I hadn't seen that. That is so classic.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#29
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What exactly are we investigating? Collusion between Trump/team and Russia. It's one thing for Russia to mess with an election, it's a vastly different thing if the campaign coordinated with them to do it.

It strikes me as odd that Americans don't seem to mind that a President to some extent might be serving the interests of a foreign power above the interests of the his own citizens. Who would have thought so many Americans would have a love affair with a KGB Agent that is responsible for murder and oppression and for his entire life worked to undermine America and has accomplished that to some extent with this Admini…

I think that the part you are missing is that the vast majority (like 65%) don't support or respect this President at all.

Of all the terrible things the government has done in the past 1 / 10 / 100 years, I don't think that a candidate coordinating with Russia about which fake news to publish is even worth mentioning.

If Congress has the guts to investigate the Steele dossier (which alleged Trump traded eased regulations for oil interests) then that's great. And if he is impeached on that basis, that's great too, although it leaves us with a probably worse Mike Pence. Better yet is if the entire government falls.

I'm not defending Trump or his conduct; I'm just saying this is a distraction.

Re: Ex-Trump adviser Flynn seeks immunity for testimony in Russia probe: WSJ

#30
post #17
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What exactly are we investigating? Collusion between Trump/team and Russia. It's one thing for Russia to mess with an election, it's a vastly different thing if the campaign coordinated with them to do it.

If "messed with" the election just means misleading propaganda, then is it really an issue if they coordinated with them? How is it any different than hiring a PR firm based in another country?

For a US politician to hire a foreign intelligence agency is arguably an issue. Some might call it treason.
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