Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person • Hacker News Board

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#481

Post by metaphorm » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 3:43 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #358

rdtsc wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Farm here or I'll decapitate you." I think you got confused, that's communism. :P And it's not decapitation (too messy) it is a bullet to the back of the head or death in a labor camp. Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". > The fact that you harbor a resentment as if the former is anything like the latter is slightly terrifying. Really? Is it terrifying to compare a…

> Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". + if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage. + I can kill you, anytime, for no reason, without consequence, horribly slow. or whole village. the only motivation to not d…

you're not describing Feudalism. you're describing an imaginary system that combines the worst attributes of slavery, theocracy, and lawless rule-by-violence.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#482

Post by metaphorm » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 3:48 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #286

mhermher wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property is violence. If I try to take something that "isn't my property", the state will intervene with violence (e.g. forced imprisonment, etc.) on behalf of the person deemed to be the "lawful owner".

Can you propose any alternative system that doesn't involve the concept of property that manages to avoid violence? Broadly speaking, demand is unlimited and supply is limited. With these two as a given, violence is essentially inevitable. Property near as I can tell, is a cultural tool that minimizes violence and maximizes supply. Only when there is abundance outstripping demand of a population, is violence avoidabl…

Violence is inherent to living in our civilized, city-building way of life. That doesn't mean that property isn't a system for regulating violence. It is. We allow the state to monopolize the right to violence and entrust the state with the responsibility of settling property disputes in a legal framework so that we don't immediately resort to violence.

An alternative system that avoids violence is not living the way we live. That ship sailed tens of thousands of years ago though. Too late now. In our current state we just have violence and systems for regulating it.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#483

Post by metaphorm » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 3:50 PM UTC

ImSkeptical wrote: post #213

mhermher wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property is violence. If I try to take something that "isn't my property", the state will intervene with violence (e.g. forced imprisonment, etc.) on behalf of the person deemed to be the "lawful owner".

I haven't seen opinion polls, but I doubt that's a widely held view. Why should people conform to your unusual position on property, as opposed to the mainstream one? Personally, I quite like owning things that are mine. The cost, that other people can own things that are theirs and not mine, seems well worth it.

Property is a system for regulating (hopefully reducing) violence). I'm quite sure that is a widely held view.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#484

Post by metaphorm » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 3:51 PM UTC

no-state-needed wrote: post #270

mhermher wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Property is violence. If I try to take something that "isn't my property", the state will intervene with violence (e.g. forced imprisonment, etc.) on behalf of the person deemed to be the "lawful owner".

I'm curious to understand how you've decided that your desire to take someone else's property makes it a trivial truth that only violence prevents you from having the natural right to take it.

discredited rhetorical technique. you can do better.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#485

Post by metaphorm » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 3:55 PM UTC

averagewall wrote: post #430

efaref wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't that Bezos has 1,000x my net worth. He has 1,000,000x my (approximate) net worth. One millionth of my net worth is seven cents, so Bezos:me is me:$0.07. The graph isn't logarithmic. It's shaped like this: | | | ____________|

Norway has a $900 billion sovereign wealth fund. Is that a problem too? If you never heard about Bezos's wealth, would you suffer any troubles because of it? I think it's fine.

Norway's sovereign wealth fund is managed on behalf of all the people of Norway and there are political systems in place that grants those people some influence over how that money is used, and who benefits from it.

Bezos' wealth (and all the massive political power it represents) is almost totally unaccountable. This is the real problem of wealth inequality. It's not that some people have more material goods than others. It's that levels of wealth like that undermine the political systems that we have constructed to seek fair, just, and peaceful resolution of disputes. It is a road to tyranny.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#486

Post by metaphorm » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 3:57 PM UTC

terryf wrote: post #402

efaref wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't that Bezos has 1,000x my net worth. He has 1,000,000x my (approximate) net worth. One millionth of my net worth is seven cents, so Bezos:me is me:$0.07. The graph isn't logarithmic. It's shaped like this: | | | ____________|

What difference is there between 1000x and 1,000,000x ? Should there be a cap somewhere? I just completely fail to see how this is anything other than being jealous of someone elses's success. Please do explain.

really? you can only think of it as being about jealousy? that seems like a rhetorical trick you're attempting to use to shut down the debate by an appeal to (your perception of) the irrational emotional states of others.

spend a few minutes thinking about the politics of wealth and the premise of representative democracy and popular sovereignty.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#487

Post by metaphorm » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 3:59 PM UTC

marknutter wrote: post #454

efaref wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about being jealous of a particular person's success, it's more about observing the problems with a world where a tiny fraction of the population capture and control over half of the wealth. If that were problem free, then fine. But it's not. Think of it as a symptom of an illness, and we should work to get the fever down.

But you're treating the symptom then. Shouldn't the illness be the target?

one step at a time. this is triage. first you get the fever down so the patient doesn't die. then you identify the pathogen and get your hygiene and medicine in a place where they can prevent future infections.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#488

Post by ionised » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 3:59 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #358

rdtsc wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Farm here or I'll decapitate you." I think you got confused, that's communism. :P And it's not decapitation (too messy) it is a bullet to the back of the head or death in a labor camp. Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". > The fact that you harbor a resentment as if the former is anything like the latter is slightly terrifying. Really? Is it terrifying to compare a…

> Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". + if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage. + I can kill you, anytime, for no reason, without consequence, horribly slow. or whole village. the only motivation to not d…

+ if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage.

Prima Noctis was a myth and no evidence of it every being practiced can be found.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#489

Post by TheCoelacanth » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 4:31 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #358

rdtsc wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Farm here or I'll decapitate you." I think you got confused, that's communism. :P And it's not decapitation (too messy) it is a bullet to the back of the head or death in a labor camp. Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". > The fact that you harbor a resentment as if the former is anything like the latter is slightly terrifying. Really? Is it terrifying to compare a…

> Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". + if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage. + I can kill you, anytime, for no reason, without consequence, horribly slow. or whole village. the only motivation to not d…

> if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage.

That is widely considered to be Enlightenment-era propaganda, not an actual feudal practice.

> I can kill you, anytime, for no reason, without consequence, horribly slow. or whole village. the only motivation to not do so is losing a bit of wealth since you all are my property, nothing more. but sometimes I can afford to lose a bit of property, just for the fun of it.

Generally not. Most serfs had some minimal rights and couldn't be killed without justification.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#490

Post by rdtsc » Thu, Mar 30, 2017, 4:38 PM UTC

saiya-jin wrote: post #358

rdtsc wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Farm here or I'll decapitate you." I think you got confused, that's communism. :P And it's not decapitation (too messy) it is a bullet to the back of the head or death in a labor camp. Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". > The fact that you harbor a resentment as if the former is anything like the latter is slightly terrifying. Really? Is it terrifying to compare a…

> Feudalism is "you can farm here but you owe me and your promise to fight in my wars". + if you will marry, I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night, just before you. with church blessing. good luck figuring our if your first kid is yours or not. or having happy marriage. + I can kill you, anytime, for no reason, without consequence, horribly slow. or whole village. the only motivation to not d…

> , I have every right to fuck your new wife on your wedding night,

Did you study this in school or read about or just watched movies?

> sky is the only real limit. so yes, comparing those 2 sends shivers down my spine too, since this is just envy.

I didn't blame anyone. Just pointing out that comparison is not really that outrageous and terrifying, mostly because it builds a straw-man out of what feudalism was about.

If you believe kings and lords were going around sleeping with brides everywhere on their first night, yes, I can see why a lot of things would send shivers down your spine.