Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 548 posts

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#211

Post by mjfl »

majormajor wrote: post #210
mjfl wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's not the important part. The violence is the important part. Feudalism wasn't unjust because the kings had a lot of money, it was unjust because they got a lot of money through force and not through productive economic activity. Also, I think it is extremely problematic to compare any system with large disparities of outcome with an essentially violent system like feudalism (or just defining "inequality = v…

> Feudalism wasn't unjust because the kings had a lot of money, it was unjust because they got a lot of money through force and not through productive economic activity. What if they just inherited it? How confident are we that everyone who has a lot of monetary power today got to that place originally through productive economic activity vs. illegitimate/criminal activity, or unproductive economic activity, or inher…

In an ideal society, we identify theft/criminal activity and get the money back. That's part of what we have government for right? Also inheritance is ultimately the extension of the will of someone who was economically productive, so I see no problem there.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#212

Post by GhostVII »

_m8fo wrote: post #84

Everytime I see these types of articles I wonder if we're still in feudalism. Should we really be celebrating that a single individual is worth more than hundreds of millions of people[1]? I dunno, it seems dystopian , like we're enslaved to the system. [1] https://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pressreleases/2017-01-16/...

His wealth doesn't really come at the cost of the wealth of others though - he has probably been a net benefit to society through job creation and investments and things like that. If wealth was a zero-sum game it would be different, but it is not.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#213

Post by ImSkeptical »

mhermher wrote: post #195
mjfl wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a little hyperbolic. In feudalism the balance of power is enforced by violence, whereas Jeff Bezos got rich because you gave him money in exchange for products. Like, "Hey, here's this cool electronic device called the Amazon Echo for $50." is a markedly different from "Farm here or I'll decapitate you." The fact that you harbor a resentment as if the former is anything like the latter is slightly terr…

Property is violence. If I try to take something that "isn't my property", the state will intervene with violence (e.g. forced imprisonment, etc.) on behalf of the person deemed to be the "lawful owner".

I haven't seen opinion polls, but I doubt that's a widely held view. Why should people conform to your unusual position on property, as opposed to the mainstream one?

Personally, I quite like owning things that are mine. The cost, that other people can own things that are theirs and not mine, seems well worth it.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#214

Post by mturmon »

habosa wrote: post #143
mjfl wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a little hyperbolic. In feudalism the balance of power is enforced by violence, whereas Jeff Bezos got rich because you gave him money in exchange for products. Like, "Hey, here's this cool electronic device called the Amazon Echo for $50." is a markedly different from "Farm here or I'll decapitate you." The fact that you harbor a resentment as if the former is anything like the latter is slightly terr…

This reminds me of Nozick's Wilt Chamberlain example, which I will quote here: > Nozick's famous Wilt Chamberlain argument is an attempt to show that patterned principles of just distribution are incompatible with liberty. He asks us to assume that the original distribution in society, D1, is ordered by our choice of patterned principle, for instance Rawls's Difference Principle. Wilt Chamberlain is an extremely popu…

Although, my relationships with AT&T, Exxon, and my landlord do not seem to match this Wilt Chamberlain scenario.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#215

Post by andrepd »

pfisch wrote: post #162
andrepd wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Did this person work more or does he have more merit than 100.000.000s of people? It's absurd.

He provided more economic/productive value to the world than 100,000,000s of people. Idk about "working hard" or "merit" because who cares if someone has to work super hard for 2 days to produce the same results another person can produce in 10 minutes.

Nope, Bezos didn't create more value than 100,000,000s of people. How could he? He started it, sure, he owns it and he directs it, but Amazon employs 341,000 people. Those are the people who generate the bulk of the value produced by the Amazon company, yet they share in very little of the value they produced. Would you say a CEO is responsible for all the value the company makes? Would you say it's fair for a feudal lord that "owns" a land to keep for himself 90% of the value his land produces while 100 people toil for 12h a day and barely have enough to eat? It's absurd. You can't defend this.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#216

Post by baursak »

mjfl wrote: post #211
majormajor wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feudalism wasn't unjust because the kings had a lot of money, it was unjust because they got a lot of money through force and not through productive economic activity. What if they just inherited it? How confident are we that everyone who has a lot of monetary power today got to that place originally through productive economic activity vs. illegitimate/criminal activity, or unproductive economic activity, or inher…

In an ideal society, we identify theft/criminal activity and get the money back. That's part of what we have government for right? Also inheritance is ultimately the extension of the will of someone who was economically productive, so I see no problem there.

> Also inheritance is ultimately the extension of the will of someone who was economically productive, so I see no problem there.

Like Queen of England's inheritance, for example?

Or anybody inheriting land on American soil?

Totally no violence involved in initially obtaining those assets?

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#217

Post by andrepd »

gozur88 wrote: post #120
andrepd wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. Did this person work more or does he have more merit than 100.000.000s of people? It's absurd.

Neither. He had money which he risked. Capitalism isn't about working harder, it's about getting a return on risk.

But this is what many people defend. And what do you say to the billions earning less than 5$ a day?

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#218

Post by andrepd »

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #114
perseusprime11 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perils of capitalism in it's absolute form. We celebrate these people for becoming rich and we will celebrate again for giving back their money like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

Are you suggesting we shouldn't thank them? Now that's a perilous idea.

For accruing wealth for themselves? Why should we?

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#219

Post by dragonwriter »

mjfl wrote: post #211
majormajor wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feudalism wasn't unjust because the kings had a lot of money, it was unjust because they got a lot of money through force and not through productive economic activity. What if they just inherited it? How confident are we that everyone who has a lot of monetary power today got to that place originally through productive economic activity vs. illegitimate/criminal activity, or unproductive economic activity, or inher…

In an ideal society, we identify theft/criminal activity and get the money back. That's part of what we have government for right? Also inheritance is ultimately the extension of the will of someone who was economically productive, so I see no problem there.

> Also inheritance is ultimately the extension of the will of someone who was economically productive, so I see no problem there.

I see a problem with the dead ruling over the living. Your will ends when you do with no extension.

That's not to say there might not be legitimate reasons to allow some inheritance, but extending the will of the dead, economically productive in life or not, is not among them.

Re: Jeff Bezos Is Now the World's Second Richest Person

#220

Post by mturmon »

wozniacki wrote: post #165
enraged_camel wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Could you perhaps expand on this observation? I genuinely find it interesting. Look up "Seattle freeze". It's a real phenomenon sociologists have studied. Essentially, it's easy to make acquiantences in Seattle, but extremely difficult to make friends . Everyone is polite and friendly on the surface, but any attempt to get to know someone is met with (polite) stonewalling.

Could you list a few other cities which are known for such peculiar mannerisms? I was told Boston has its own stripe of the "Seattle Freeze". I find all of this incredibly interesting. If I could, I'd at least make a quick wiki of these observations. Frankly I think this is one of the elements that would figure prominently when considering places to move to, whether within the U.S. or globally. More so than weather o…

It looks like Wikipedia beat you to it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_nice (and pointers within).
Post reply on HN