Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#81

Post by antisthenes » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:25 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #61

kough wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

Now add a 32oz coke (320 calories) and a large fry (510) and you're at 1,652 calories for what many people would consider a "small" meal. Throw in a 510 calorie McFlurry for dessert and you've just blown past 2k calories in a single sitting.

Sorry, but that's batshit insane. My stomach is literally not big enough to handle that much liquid/volume in a single meal.

A huge sandwich, 32 oz of liquid, tons of fries, and then another cup of liquid?

Somewhere about mid-way through that a normal human being should feel sick and stop eating. That's not a "small" meal by any measure.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#82

Post by Nav_Panel » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:26 PM UTC

sushisource wrote: post #64

kough wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

Yep. Anyone who has ever trained for a marathon or other endurance event understands that eating 4000+ calories a day is a chore. On top of the fact that you want these to be "good" calories... Let's just say I ate a lot of rice with veggies. Which leads to the blunt advice I give most people seeking to lose weight. Sure, you might be genetically predisposed to have a slow metabolism, but at the end of the day "calor…

I still think "eat less" is bad advice, because just "eating less" chips/soda/garbage is pretty difficult. I've tried. It requires an extreme and inhuman amount of willpower. Our natural drive is to vacuum up all the easy energy in front of us.

"Eat better" is probably better/more useful vague advice. You can eat a whole lot of salad/veggies and it wont end up being that many calories (so, in this case, you're eating MORE, but consuming less energy/fewer calories). Same with meat. It's hard not to lose weight if you're eating a lot of (leaner) meat, because you feel extremely full after a couple hundred calories worth. If you start modifying your diet, your cravings will change too. It's all about these weird feedback loops.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#83

Post by cheald » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:26 PM UTC

sushisource wrote: post #64

kough wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it's pretty hard to eat a whole day's worth of calories in a single meal. I know this because I've tried to, regularly, as part of a longer attempt to gain weight. If you're ordering at McDonald's, your best calorie/dollar ratio [edit: s/your best/my preferred] is the ~800 calorie double quarter pounder with cheese for ~6 dollars. My daily caloric requirements are estimated at 3000 calories based on my age…

Yep. Anyone who has ever trained for a marathon or other endurance event understands that eating 4000+ calories a day is a chore. On top of the fact that you want these to be "good" calories... Let's just say I ate a lot of rice with veggies. Which leads to the blunt advice I give most people seeking to lose weight. Sure, you might be genetically predisposed to have a slow metabolism, but at the end of the day "calor…

Eating 4k in a day is a chore if you are used to controlling your intake and eating clean. It's not hard if you eat poorly.

There was once a time that I could put down a Costco box of Goldfish crackers (7400 calories) in an evening of hacking, with a few cans of Coke (another 600) to wash it down with. A package of Oreo cookies is north of 2500 calories. A "single serving" pint of Ben & Jerry's ice cream is well over 1k calories.

Eating 4k calories well is hard - caloric density in good foods isn't nearly what it is in bad foods, and you're just going to physically fill up your stomach. Eating it poorly is, sadly, way too easy.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#84

Post by hyperpape » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:26 PM UTC

kough wrote: post #69

cheald wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now add a 32oz coke (320 calories) and a large fry (510) and you're at 1,652 calories for what many people would consider a "small" meal. Throw in a 510 calorie McFlurry for dessert and you've just blown past 2k calories in a single sitting.

Have you ever tried to eat that much? The whole point of my comment is that it's very difficult to "blow past 2k calories in a single sitting." Not that it's impossible – obviously McDonald's has a lot of high-calorie foods.

It's not as hard as you think, depending on the person. At age 17, I ordered a quadruple quarter pounder and ate it while out with friends. I don't remember if I had fries, but I certainly had a large coke with that.

Last time I was out with one of my good friends from high school, he ate two 8 ounce burgers in a sitting. He's probably 5'8" and no more than 150 lbs.

There's a huge variation in people's appetite.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#85

Post by kbenson » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:28 PM UTC

kannan wrote: post #16

loader wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These twins also did one on Alcohol (Casual but Consistent vs Binging) which was pretty interesting: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05wdfhk

The episode isn't currently available, do you know what was the outcome of the experiment?

I found this[1], which summarizes nicely. Basically, they are almost equally as bad for your liver, and that was with one of them taking 21 shots of vodka[2] once a week, which left him insensible, and actually in a dangerous medical state.

1: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-32798569

2: I assume measured to 25ml which is the low end of single shot size, to be in line with the standard units of alcohol they mentioned.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#86

Post by r00fus » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:28 PM UTC

Aron wrote: post #40

My intuition is that there is a small delta in impact between a 'reasonable' diet and a 'perfect' diet, and so playing in that margin is pointless. But I've always felt it notable that you can consume a whole day's worth of calories in about 5 minutes with a super happy value meal, and then be hungry again a few hours later. I'd say avoid doing that.

If you consider a "perfect" diet to be an platonic/asymptotic ideal, then striving for it is meaningful, using the "shoot for the moon" concept - aiming for "balance" when you're unbalanced in one way, will give you suboptimal long-term results. Better aim for the ideal and settle for balance.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#87

Post by Geee » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:28 PM UTC

tiglionabbit wrote: post #18

blakesterz wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I skipped to the last few minutes of that, they seem to do a nice summary... "avoid processed foods" "All faddish diets are wrong and exercise is important" "the combination of fat and sugar is bad" (not just one or the other but foods full of both like donuts are bad)

I thought eating fat with sugar was better than eating sugar alone since the fat slowed down the absorption of the sugar, thus dampening the insulin response.

You should eat sugar with fiber i.e. fruits.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#88

Post by Nav_Panel » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:28 PM UTC

kough wrote: post #76

Nav_Panel wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it far easier to consume vast amounts of calories when I'm eating straight carbs as opposed to foods with more balanced macronutrient compositions, such as cheeseburgers. The fat and protein would fill me right up. I find it pretty easy to eat a whole bag of chips (1500ish kcal) and a bottle of soda (250ish kcal) in one sitting, but I likely wouldn't feel too well an hour or two afterward. Same goes for candy,…

Yup, I was trying to balance everything out and eat the right macros. I ended up settling on a DQPwC and a 10-piece chicken nuggets + 2 packets of ranch sauce + a small fries as my standard order.

That sounds about right. I seem to recall just ordering a 20 piece chicken nuggets and calling it a day, but my struggle is typically weight loss as opposed to weight gain.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#89

Post by antisthenes » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:29 PM UTC

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #36

mjevans wrote: post #22

Yes. For me, probably most is the highly sedentary office lifestyle. Compounding this problem, I more or less live alone and thus 'community food' (eating out) is my best access to non-frozen pre-prepared meals. I refuse to do leftovers (this is not negotiable). The main problem with eating out is the portion size. Everything is insanely large.

It is "insanely large" because leftovers are built into the meal. You're meant to take some home and have it for lunch. I don't really know what your post is about. It starts with the word "Yes" (???) and then gives a ton of incoherent excuses for something which isn't specified.

Of course it's specified. It's an excuse for being fat.

Re: Is Fat Killing Us, or Is Sugar?

#90

Post by cheald » Wed, Mar 29, 2017, 9:31 PM UTC

kough wrote: post #69

cheald wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now add a 32oz coke (320 calories) and a large fry (510) and you're at 1,652 calories for what many people would consider a "small" meal. Throw in a 510 calorie McFlurry for dessert and you've just blown past 2k calories in a single sitting.

Have you ever tried to eat that much? The whole point of my comment is that it's very difficult to "blow past 2k calories in a single sitting." Not that it's impossible – obviously McDonald's has a lot of high-calorie foods.

Yeah, in days gone past I would eat that much (and more) on a regular basis.

I've noticed that when I'm used to overeating, it can take a lot of food to hit that point where my brain says "okay, I'm done". When I'm eating a more controlled diet, I hit that full point a lot faster.