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UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

bbc.com

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Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#551

Post by ownagefool »

falsedan wrote: post #267
ownagefool wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live and work in the UK, you are tax domiciled here, irregardless of where you incoperate.

Sure but if your company makes all the money, then you only get the dividend tax rate: 38.1% vs 40-45%, for higher-rate tax payers. Mind, your company has to be paying a pretty low corporate rate for this to make a difference (like if it's incorporated in the Channel Isles).

I think you missed my point, which is you are legally unable to do this. Small businesses operating in the UK are required to pay tax within the UK, as is the case with much of Europe.

Further, unless the countries have a tax treaty, you might incur double tax and an arrest warrant may be issued if you fail to comply with the rules.

Sure, I'm well aware that big companies play games with this sort of thing, but the rules are pretty stingent and your SMB cannot take afvantage of the same complex legal structures.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#552

Post by random_comment »

djmobley wrote: post #375
eyko wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The referendum was not legally binding.

It would have been untenable, however, for a government to defy the will of the people as expressed in the referendum.

> It would have been untenable, however, for a government to defy the will of the people as expressed in the referendum.

I may have missed something but at no point was anything resembling the current 'plan' ever put forward to be considered as 'the will of the people'.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#553

Post by presidente20 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #541
presidente20 wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok amendments as well as veto, but I think you see the point. It is rare that a member of the Lords is in the Cabinet and it seems reasonable that the Leader of the Lords is from the Lords doesn't it? Again the main point I'm trying to make is that the EU falls short of typical democratic standards which is a reasonably direct connection between the ruled and the rulers. Anything in between is highly subject to crony…

> It is rare that a member of the Lords is in the Cabinet As GP noted, it is always the case that at least one member of the Lords is in the cabinet, so not rare at all. More broadly, there have typically been 1-2 Lords in cabinet in most governments of the past several decades (not counting the Leader of the Lords and, before 2005, Lord Chancellor, who always are/were cabinet ministers and members of the Lords.) Joh…

Ok you're right, I meant aside from the Leader of the Lords.

Nevertheless, having one or two Lords in the Cabinet out of 22 hardly invalidates my original point that it's an elected (by the people) executive.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#554

Post by random_comment »

pluma wrote: post #397
Nursie wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The problem with the structure of the EU is basically: How do you set up a supranational state without massive constitutional changes in all the member states? Because the appetite is not there for large constitutional changes. Perhaps, don't? If you can't take the people of a democracy with you on a project, perhaps it's best not to try and build such a thing anyway, and then end up with a hack? On the rest - I wo…

The reason the EU always wanted to have the UK on board had more to do with marketing than with necessity: Europe is France, England and Germany; if the EU was to be Europe, it needed those three in it or it isn't going to happen. It's also Spain and Portugal, Belgium and the Netherlands. The more the merrier. Open a history book and if a country playing a major role on the European continent is in it, it should prob…

> we've understood that the feelings aren't mutual.

48% of Brits, 62% of Scots don't feel that way.

And literally no one in the UK voted for what the government is currently doing or how shittily it is treating it's EU partner governments or EU guests living in the UK.

We'll be back, hopefully less arrogant the next time.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#555

Post by gpderetta »

Nursie wrote: post #222
JamesMcMinn wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The risks are most certainly not only economic. The EU influences almost every aspect of the UK in one way or another. Immigration and travel are both affected. The ability to travel and work in any country in the EU is a massive benefit which will likely be much more difficult. Visiting family in friends outside of the UK could become much more difficult. Our laws are affected - there will be nothing to stop the UK…

The human rights act, IIRC, is bound up with ECHR membership - a non-EU institution. I agree the EU was a lock on this but it's a bit more complex than just changing the legislation.

Yes, but being a EU member requires treating ECHR [1] rulings​ as binding. Afer leaving UK will be free to disregard them (and it has already manifested intention to do so)

[1] which is distinct from ECJ, and not an EU organisation.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#556

Post by random_comment »

pluma wrote: post #389
Nursie wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Commission gets a bad rap because basically it's been stuffed with cronies and friends of council members. The UK may be the worst for this, we had one Commissioner who had been disgraced out of the UK cabinet twice, and then found himself in a nice 'untouchable' position on the Commission. He's now a Lord. There are flaws in UK democracy certainly but I don't think the EU got it right. I also fundamentally have…

> Switzerland and Iceland Sure but the UK is not Switzerland or Iceland. On the world stage Iceland is irrelevant. It's a lot like Switzerland without influence. Sure, Iceland can afford to be eccentric about world politics because it's not under the direct influence of other countries to the same extent as most are but it also doesn't hold any real influence itself. The UK doesn't want to be Iceland, it wants to be…

> If anything, Brexit was fuelled by impotent rage

Ignorant rage, perhaps.

https://www.google.com/search?q=daily+mail+eu&source=lnms&tb...

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#557

Post by asdfgadsfgasfdg »

random_comment wrote: post #548
Balero wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wales voted to leave by a large margin.

This is factually untrue. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36612308 Wales voted by a 52.5% to 47.5% margin to leave. There are very few countries in the world where a non-binding referendum with that kind of margin would be considered a mandate to make a fundamental change to the constitutional basis of the country.

So they voted to leave by a bigger margin than the UK as a whole did then.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#558

Post by dragonwriter »

presidente20 wrote: post #553
dragonwriter wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is rare that a member of the Lords is in the Cabinet As GP noted, it is always the case that at least one member of the Lords is in the cabinet, so not rare at all. More broadly, there have typically been 1-2 Lords in cabinet in most governments of the past several decades (not counting the Leader of the Lords and, before 2005, Lord Chancellor, who always are/were cabinet ministers and members of the Lords.) Joh…

Ok you're right, I meant aside from the Leader of the Lords. Nevertheless, having one or two Lords in the Cabinet out of 22 hardly invalidates my original point that it's an elected (by the people) executive.

Its an indirectly elected chief executive and an appointed cabinet drawn largely from, and confirmed by, parliament, in practice. (In theory, they're all appointed by the monarch, but the traditional constraints on that make it a ministerial rather than discretionary act in practice.)

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#559

Post by gm3dmo »

794CD01 wrote: post #470
vkou wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's at stake here is more fundamental than federalism: it's self determination. Yet, Britain has done its best to deny the same right to self-determination to its subjects. Self-determination seems to be an excuse trotted out to support existing power structures. "We should secede from _____ - but nobody should secede from us." Britain and Ireland, Britain and India, Britain and Scotland... Britain had to be dra…

If anything that just demonstrates the point further. Ireland and India are now independent and are happier for it. Scotland will soon join them. The EU doesn't want Britain to leave. The oppressors and the oppressed do not have the same goals.

Ireland is a member of the EU.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#560

Post by gpderetta »

stephen_g wrote: post #328
gizmo wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK economy will not collapse because of this, but it will cost them billions in the short term and a few basis points of yearly GDP growth for the next decade, and that really adds up. What's even worse is that the UK leaving the EU can destabilize the Euro, which is already on a knife's edge. If the Euro collapses we'll get a worldwide recession, with a staggering human cost. It's too easy to dismiss concerns as…

The late economist Wynne Godley explained why the Euro couldn't work in the long run and described how it would cause problems like Greece back in 1992 [1]. There is simply no way a supra-national currency could work without a federal budget. It's probably time to accept that the Euro will likely fail no matter what we do. Sadly, the people of Greece have already paid a terrible cost... 1. https://www.lrb.co.uk/v14/n…

Or we get a federal budget.
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