Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#51

Post by blub » Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 6:45 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12

I don't see how I can responsibly spend effort on developing an iPad app. The "approval" process is chaotic and arbitrary - witness intelligent cooperative people having their whole business shot down seemingly at random. I will develop for other platforms - the market leader Android for instance - which operate on the oldfashioned principle of "free market".

The market research puts Android in fourth place, after Nokia, RIM and Apple.

Even so, I can't even sell on Android market because I don't live in one of the approved countries.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#52

Post by blub » Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 6:50 PM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #23

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12

I don't see how I can responsibly spend effort on developing an iPad app. The "approval" process is chaotic and arbitrary - witness intelligent cooperative people having their whole business shot down seemingly at random. I will develop for other platforms - the market leader Android for instance - which operate on the oldfashioned principle of "free market".

Technically, Symbian is still the market leader by a comfortable margin. (The development options are fairly confusing though. For C/C++ development, the only Symbian dev avenue worth considering nowadays is "Nokia Qt SDK", which is surprisingly nice. Java seems to be essentially deprecated, but higher-level options like Python and JavaScript through Web Runtime are available.)

Buying Qt was a brilliant move by Nokia. Qt fans like myself have naturally drifted toward Nokia phone development.

Google should support this guy: http://groups.google.com/group/android-ndk/browse_thread/thr... and be more open with development options in general. Official support for Mono or Qt would attract a lot of interest.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#53

Post by bsaunder » Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 6:57 PM UTC

It's beginning to seem like Apple is treating all their third party developers as employees that they don't have to directly compensate.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#54

Post by alex_c » Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 7:14 PM UTC

dieterrams wrote: post #39

alex_c wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When you make your picture frame app look like a desktop. Can you actually point me to anything in the existing developer agreements or interface guidelines that disallows this? I just looked, and I haven't been able to find anything - but it's not exactly hard to miss something.

From the iPhone Human Interface Guidelines - Creating a Great User Interface: "As you design your application, be aware of the metaphors that exist in iPhone OS and don't redefine them." I wasn't aware of this specific guideline/rule until just now, having looked for it in response to your question. But I do think it's an easily intuited rule, given a basic understanding of usability. Still, I don't think these guys…

I just don't see it. If I sat down today to make an app like this, and read the sentence you quoted, it wouldn't even cross my mind that I might get in trouble. What is the existing metaphor for "picture frame that shows the time, weather, and some other useful info"?

For that matter, where does it say anything about desktops?

It's about as useful as a Rorschach test, or staring at the clouds to understand the shape of Apple's intentions.

Yes, again, Apple's platform means Apple's rules - developers have little to no bargaining power. I just don't want to pretend that the rules aren't completely unpredictable at times.

Edit: I've run afoul of HIG violations before - it's usually relatively minor stuff that can be fixed and should get approved once it's resubmitted. Even "redefining a metaphor" can usually be fixed by changing to more standard controls. It doesn't sound like there's any UI change these guys can make to their app to make it acceptable.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#55

Post by CWuestefeld » Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 7:18 PM UTC

pstevensza wrote: post #41

Some viable arguments lost in a tirade of hysteria. I've never written an app for the iPhone/iPad, so I have no first hand experience with the approval/rejection nonsense. I do however own an iPhone, and I love the fact that I can expect a certain level of quality in the applications I buy. One thing that makes me snicker about the article in question is the purpose of the app. Why the hell would you want to waste an…

Downvoted. This article (and the one from the developer that was posted yesterday) indicate that this isn't about quality. By all accounts it was a well-done app. Rather, the problem was that Apple dislikes its functionality -- but in a way that they refuse to define, so the developer has no way to "fix" it.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#56

Post by ra88it » Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 7:26 PM UTC

The picture of the app on the dev's website doesn't look like a 'desktop'. Surely there is some other component in the UI that does resemble a desktop. Anybody have a link to a better screenshot?

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#57

Post by BrandonM » Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 7:29 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #37

What’s next, Apple kills off birds which live on its campus that wet their nests? Yeah, that sounds like the logical next step... ...?

Did you actually read the Monty Python reference farther down the page that explained that metaphor?

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#58

Post by ra88it » Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 7:32 PM UTC

ra88it wrote: post #56

The picture of the app on the dev's website doesn't look like a 'desktop'. Surely there is some other component in the UI that does resemble a desktop. Anybody have a link to a better screenshot?

Hmmmmm. Or maybe Apple thinks it resembles a desktop simply because there are UI components on top of a background image?

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#59

Post by xexers » Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 7:39 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #18

blhack wrote: post #13

Does apple not see how this will end up badly for them? Apple, you're scaring off talented developers; soon the only people who will be left are people who can afford to have gobs and gobs of apps rejected.

Apple's thesis is that supply-side economics don't work. Get a ton of buyers in one place, and the supply will work itself out. We'll see how it ends up.

Ebay uses this tactic too. Ebay is very good to their buyers but can be ruthless with their sellers. If you google "ebay VERO" you will find thousands of sellers complaining.

Re: Apple: Make a desktop, your iPad app is toast

#60

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Jun 02, 2010, 8:23 PM UTC

blub wrote: post #51

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #12

I don't see how I can responsibly spend effort on developing an iPad app. The "approval" process is chaotic and arbitrary - witness intelligent cooperative people having their whole business shot down seemingly at random. I will develop for other platforms - the market leader Android for instance - which operate on the oldfashioned principle of "free market".

The market research puts Android in fourth place, after Nokia, RIM and Apple. Even so, I can't even sell on Android market because I don't live in one of the approved countries.

If the market is the US, and we consider just current sales, then Android beat Apple this month.