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New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

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Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#111

Post by YCode »

gum_ina_package wrote: post #110
pjc50 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marie Stopes would like a word with you from beyond the grave. Seriously, we've had modern birth control for a century. Not only has society not collapsed but a whole number of hidden evils have been abolished (Tuam passim), and needless poverty avoided. It's our perfect anti-Malthusian weapon. This is Hacker News in the 21st century. Tradition alone is a terrible reason to do things. I'm astonished that your comment…

Sure society hasn't collapsed, but we've lost a lot all in the name of "progress".

What all have we lost due to birth control?

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#112

Post by elastic_church »

nvahalik wrote: post #89
duopixel wrote: post #37

Should I have children, I see myself walking my teenage son to the clinic to get this done. A rite of passage of sorts. It is difficult to understate the importance of bringing only wanted children into this world, and that both parents agree on it. The cultural importance of this invention will be revealed in time, I hope.

Indeed, the cultural "importance" will be revealed in time. However, I fear not in the way you intend. There used to be a time when we as a society valued things like self-control, discipline, and tradition. No more. What you are alluding to here is a world where we are ruled by our emotions and our basest desires without the fear or potential for having to deal with our actions. To divorce sex from children is to mi…

> There used to be a time when we as a society valued things like self-control, discipline, and tradition. No more.

Despite those values it never worked for preventing children.

A lot of us here just accept that reality and are open to removing the human element from it.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#113

Post by nvahalik »

pjc50 wrote: post #103
nvahalik wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the cultural "importance" will be revealed in time. However, I fear not in the way you intend. There used to be a time when we as a society valued things like self-control, discipline, and tradition. No more. What you are alluding to here is a world where we are ruled by our emotions and our basest desires without the fear or potential for having to deal with our actions. To divorce sex from children is to mi…

Marie Stopes would like a word with you from beyond the grave. Seriously, we've had modern birth control for a century. Not only has society not collapsed but a whole number of hidden evils have been abolished (Tuam passim), and needless poverty avoided. It's our perfect anti-Malthusian weapon. This is Hacker News in the 21st century. Tradition alone is a terrible reason to do things. I'm astonished that your comment…

You're right. Society has not collapsed. It's just been turned inside out. Instead of collapse we have:

* Children with "two dads" or "two moms" rather than a nuclear family.

* Children with three genetic parents.

* A society where personal autonomy is regarded as the ultimate end.

* Laws (such as the Title IX debacle) that are self-contradictory.

* A legal system where what feels good is valued above the letter of the law.

* An educational system that wants to punish ideas that it doesn't deem as "inclusive".

* Mass protests of people who shout down their opponents instead of enlightened debate.

So yeah... exactly where is the upside to a society the abandons self-control and discipline for freedom and autonomy?

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#114

Post by watwut »

YCode wrote: post #111
gum_ina_package wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure society hasn't collapsed, but we've lost a lot all in the name of "progress".

What all have we lost due to birth control?

Teenage pregnancies dropped down ... people can have regular sex without having 7 children ... horrible ...

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#115

Post by nommm-nommm »

aianus wrote: post #105
jlebrech wrote: post #12

I thought it was going to be a pill, we already have vasectomies.

They will not give you a vasectomy in the US as a young childless man. Something about 'changing your mind later'. It's very patronizing.

Many won't but many also will. There are lists floating around the net of "childfree friendly physicians."

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#116

Post by xbryanx »

nvahalik wrote: post #89
duopixel wrote: post #37

Should I have children, I see myself walking my teenage son to the clinic to get this done. A rite of passage of sorts. It is difficult to understate the importance of bringing only wanted children into this world, and that both parents agree on it. The cultural importance of this invention will be revealed in time, I hope.

Indeed, the cultural "importance" will be revealed in time. However, I fear not in the way you intend. There used to be a time when we as a society valued things like self-control, discipline, and tradition. No more. What you are alluding to here is a world where we are ruled by our emotions and our basest desires without the fear or potential for having to deal with our actions. To divorce sex from children is to mi…

"There used to be a time when we as a society valued things like self-control, discipline, and tradition. No more."

What evidence do you have for this fantasy? The extremely high number of children per family/couple before contraception came along?

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#117

Post by throwawaysperm »

nvahalik wrote: post #89
duopixel wrote: post #37

Should I have children, I see myself walking my teenage son to the clinic to get this done. A rite of passage of sorts. It is difficult to understate the importance of bringing only wanted children into this world, and that both parents agree on it. The cultural importance of this invention will be revealed in time, I hope.

Indeed, the cultural "importance" will be revealed in time. However, I fear not in the way you intend. There used to be a time when we as a society valued things like self-control, discipline, and tradition. No more. What you are alluding to here is a world where we are ruled by our emotions and our basest desires without the fear or potential for having to deal with our actions. To divorce sex from children is to mi…

No, there is no absolute moral imperative of sex, not without throwing in a healthy dose of religious belief.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#118

Post by mehaveaccount »

mikeash wrote: post #78
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same could be said of female contraception, yet I don't see many people complaining about that. Why do you think that is?

Oh, there are a ton of people complaining that female contraception encourages people to have sex they shouldn't be having. It's not usually framed in terms of STDs, but I'm pretty sure the STD argument here is just a cover for a moralistic argument anyway.

How sad that arguing virtue for its own sake is now politically incorrect.

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#119

Post by mehaveaccount »

aianus wrote: post #102
Ntrails wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it inconceivable that you'd want to encourage high risk of stds by advocating something that only prevents pregnancy

Children are worse than the worst STD. You can live a pretty normal life with HIV, Syphilis, herpes, etc.

What are you going to miss in life if you have children?

Re: New male contraceptive may be submitted for Indian approval this year

#120

Post by and0 »

nvahalik wrote: post #113
pjc50 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marie Stopes would like a word with you from beyond the grave. Seriously, we've had modern birth control for a century. Not only has society not collapsed but a whole number of hidden evils have been abolished (Tuam passim), and needless poverty avoided. It's our perfect anti-Malthusian weapon. This is Hacker News in the 21st century. Tradition alone is a terrible reason to do things. I'm astonished that your comment…

You're right. Society has not collapsed. It's just been turned inside out. Instead of collapse we have: * Children with "two dads" or "two moms" rather than a nuclear family. * Children with three genetic parents. * A society where personal autonomy is regarded as the ultimate end. * Laws (such as the Title IX debacle) that are self-contradictory. * A legal system where what feels good is valued above the letter of t…

There are valid points to be made about HN being a bit of a bubble but I'm pretty comfortable pointing out that this is a forum for intellectual honesty and you're really showing none of that. These are tired arguments (ramblings really), to the point where I'm almost convinced you're trolling.
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