I'm old enough to remember when the big 5 colluded to keep salaries low...
Which is funny, because reading the comments seems to be suggesting they're colluding to keep salaries high in order to squash startups!
Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups
121–130 of 348 posts
Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because being underutilized in a large company is unfulfilling. Because being a staff engineer in a large company gets you no closer to running your own business. Because you want to learn technology that you cannot yet compete for. Because options outside of large companies are limited, especially if you are unable to take large immediate financial risks.
Why not: work for a large company that can do both? Pay reasonably well with low-risk, and let you grow your technology skills + contacts? A: those companies aren't cool & won't make you a millionaire by 35 on stock options (whereas a startup might)
Personally, because I don't like being told what to do :) If I don't have a significant amount of control I shut down, become depressed, anxious that I'm wasting my life, etc. I'm also wary of being taken advantage of. If I'm going to spend half or more my waking hours working I want to be reaping the profits. I need freedom. I've been directing product at a seed stage startup to get my bearings in the small business world but now I'm feeling antsy because I am starting to think I could be doing better on my own while having more control over my time, the products I build, the money those products earn, etc.
Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups
#123Don't start companies in places where the prevailing rates are in the 6 figures unless you have the cash to afford it. The idea that software engineering is a "talent" strikes me as wrong. Knowledge of algorithms and data structure is attainable by anyone willing to put in the time to read a book. Hire people, incentivise them to learn what's important to the success of your company. Pay them to practice their new sk…
> Knowledge of algorithms and data structure is attainable by anyone willing to put in the time to read a book
Cognitive limits do exist. Hardwired g-factor correlates like working memory will ultimately limit any one individual's capacity for understanding the above.
I do agree with your larger point, though. SF/NYC/Boston are not the only places one can find high-IQ individuals motivated to learn and build things.
Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups
#124I don't think the average engineer with 5 years of experience makes 250k; not even in the top 10%. And startups DO pay that much, it's just reserved for powerful exec hires. Just pay more if you want the best engineers. Asking for a world where top talent works for less money is stupid.
Hey. CEO here. So you're telling me if I raise salaries I might hire better engineers? Hmm, wonder if there are any theories about this relationship.
Your best strategy would be not to have a fixed salary, but a range of salary which you can afford with your outlay, and then seen what the potential hire can be enticed with. That way you know immediately if the candidate is too expensive for you.
Just randomly increasing everyone's salary may not be very helpful.
Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups
#125If you are a startup and are trying to compete head to head with Google / FB / Amazon / Apple / Microsoft for the same people, you are going to have a really hard time recruiting. But there are plenty of great engineers that don't want to work at those companies for various reasons. There are plenty of great engineers that want to work remotely and don't have that option at the large companies. There are also plenty…
Also, almost certainly, you don't want to hire engineers after they end up working at one of the tech giants, and the more experienced they are the worse. Having had the unfortunate experience of working along side some of the 'veterans' of one of these tech giants, it was a little disconcerting how easily they would form cliques based on perceived 'proven vs unproven' folks - if you hadn't worked at one of the tech…
Sounds like anecdata, I've worked in and out of big co's and met only one weirdo like you describe.
Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups
#126Alternative hypothesis: these salaries are helping startups.
It is fantastic that someone not born into wealth and connections can pay off their debt in record time, then save enough to cover financial security and take a few risks, such as quitting the well paying job to bootstrap a company before your twenties are over. And if the venture goes pear shaped, there are plenty of high paying jobs to catch up with the rat race.
I've heard of $170k starting salaries in the Valley last year, admittedly for the best students from MIT or Stanford. But on that money, or even half of it, you do not need to hot bunk to put a serious amount away, and give yourself the time to develop the product or convince a decent technical person to join you. And you won't be (as much) at the mercy of investors or clients.
Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups
#127I work at a startup that isn't profitable yet so our salaries are very low... - Our typical junior makes $50 - 60k - A typical mid makes $65 - 75k - Seniors (including CTO) make $90 - 110k In greater Boston. It is VERY difficult to hire at those rates. We had someone come in interviewing for a senior that I would place as a mid (generously...) and he accepted another offer for $150k. At our scale he would be making $…
You'll get programmers from developing countries with a good 10 years on them for $70k if you can build a company around a completely async remote culture. And I'm not talking about fad-following framework-crazed devs, but rugged pros who'll cost a premium if they were in a developed country.
Hello,
this is not only true for developing countries but even for developed countries. I'll speak about my country, Greece. The average wage for a junior developer is a little less than 20 000 euros per month (around 1000 years/month x 14 months + 4000 for insurance etc) while for a senior may be a little more (but probably less than 30 000, depends on years and kind of work). Wages of more than 35 000 euros are seldom found for developers and are mainly reserved for management positions. The wages are more or less the same on most Southern Europe countries (Italy, Spain etc) and are definitely much less in less developed European Countries (Bulgaria, Hungary etc).
So, if you focus on developers from similar countries you can get top talent (and I mean that, there are many great developers here, most of these people are better than the ones in Silicon Valley since they are working in their own country which the jobs are not much instead of migrating to a different place to find a job) for less than 40 000 euros / year.
The only drawback would be that they'd want to work remotely (or else they'd have already migrated). So the best course of action is to create your company's culture to not only allow but to embrace remote work (i.e by trying to only hire remote people -- this'll also save you money). Also, another idea is that migrate the start up offices instead of trying to convince developers to migrate!
Greece is a beautiful country after all :)
Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups
#128Well, Hacker News seems to be hurting this website, so here's Google's cached version: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RD5ZRW...
The definition if Irony!!! Google is hurting us, so use a system by Google to read how Google is bad for (some) business(-es) which you could not read if Google didn't exist, while at the same time this article wouldn't exist if Google didn't exist! (and right about now I'm watching myself looking at me seeing me)
that isnt ironic
Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups
#129If you are a startup and are trying to compete head to head with Google / FB / Amazon / Apple / Microsoft for the same people, you are going to have a really hard time recruiting. But there are plenty of great engineers that don't want to work at those companies for various reasons. There are plenty of great engineers that want to work remotely and don't have that option at the large companies. There are also plenty…
I've heard that Google often has A class talent doing B or C class work; e.g. an expert in PL will often be working on ads. Sure the pay is great, but it can feel soul sucking. A startup can be appealing to some talented people if the work is interesting, even if the pay isn't as good.
This describes the target of hiring at all levels in the Bay Area. Everyone wants A class talent for their B or C class CRUD. A major contributor to this is that the industry is relatively immature with respect to engineering practices.
Re: Big Tech Company Salaries Are Hurting Startups
#130I work at a startup that isn't profitable yet so our salaries are very low... - Our typical junior makes $50 - 60k - A typical mid makes $65 - 75k - Seniors (including CTO) make $90 - 110k In greater Boston. It is VERY difficult to hire at those rates. We had someone come in interviewing for a senior that I would place as a mid (generously...) and he accepted another offer for $150k. At our scale he would be making $…
How do I apply for the job ? What is your email.