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Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

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Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#131

Post by hackuser »

vaishaksuresh wrote: post #33
aceinaday wrote: post #15

IMHO as a part-time Uber driver, Uber could fix a lot of their current problems by putting tipping into the app. The self-driving car is not here yet, and Uber does not do enough for its drivers. If they would just add tipping I think that better drivers in better cars would start driving again. Without the tips, it's just not worth it.

No thanks! If drivers need to be compensated better, I would suggest increasing the fare or Uber taking a smaller cut. A lot of people prefer Uber just so they don't have to deal with tipping like in traditional cabs.

> A lot of people prefer Uber just so they don't have to deal with tipping like in traditional cabs.

Is their any data to back this up? Outside of Hacker News, I don't think I've ever heard someone complain about tipping. I have no problem with it.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#132

Post by Arizhel »

smallgovt wrote: post #119
Arizhel wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are you proposing that companies should not be allowed to hire someone from the outside to fix severe culture issues? Not exactly, just that they shouldn't be able to offer them generous golden parachutes. Of course, I'm not so sure about the legality of this, but perhaps within corporate law a law could be made that companies aren't allowed to promise enormous sums of money to people when they fail to fix the probl…

Thanks for clarifying. The negative impact of such a decision wouldn't just be on Uber employees, but also the 500,000 drivers actively using their app; on average making $30K per year. A large fraction of these people are probably depending solely on this income to make ends meet. In an ideal world, there'd be an immediate replacement for Uber for all these drivers to switch over. However, we all know that's wishful…

You think Uber drivers can't just switch to the competition at the drop of a hat? Lots of them already work for both Uber and Lyft at the same time! They're the absolute last people I'm worried about hurting here. There are other "ride-sharing" companies out there, you know. And when Uber is clearly going down the drain, more competitors will pop up in anticipation of taking advantage of the situation.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#133

Post by jtmcmc »

sqeaky wrote: post #129
ProAm wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valued at means nothing really, it speaks to investment and while its not worth nothing they are currently burning about 3/4 billion per quarter [1], and have no profitable quarters anywhere on the horizon. They have always been betting their future on autonomous cars and the Waymo lawsuit stands a good chance to set them back a decade and they do not have the current capital to withstand that. MS was already public…

$3 billion per year isn't that much at that scale, it would still take them many years to burn through their estimated cash reserves. That is if they did nothing and earned no money, but they earn something. They would have time to come up with a plan even if it were a backup backup plan that involved shedding a large fraction of the company. If anything being public hinders options. Being private they can do a huge…

they don't have 70 billion in cash. They have raised 8.8 billion so far and have spent a fair chunk of that as is.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#134

Post by smallgovt »

Arizhel wrote: post #132
smallgovt wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for clarifying. The negative impact of such a decision wouldn't just be on Uber employees, but also the 500,000 drivers actively using their app; on average making $30K per year. A large fraction of these people are probably depending solely on this income to make ends meet. In an ideal world, there'd be an immediate replacement for Uber for all these drivers to switch over. However, we all know that's wishful…

You think Uber drivers can't just switch to the competition at the drop of a hat? Lots of them already work for both Uber and Lyft at the same time! They're the absolute last people I'm worried about hurting here. There are other "ride-sharing" companies out there, you know. And when Uber is clearly going down the drain, more competitors will pop up in anticipation of taking advantage of the situation.

What percentage of customers/drivers do YOU think would switch over to Lyft et al?

From my experience in growth/marketing, I would bet there would be around 50% drop off, but I could definitely be wrong! These things are hard to guess. (Customers need to switch as well as drivers)

Even a 1% drop off leads to 5000 people let go. Anything substantial would lead me to strongly considering other avenues of redemption.

To be sure, I'd want to better understand the magnitude of effect here before saying that sentencing Uber to death is "absolutely" the right thing to do.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#135

Post by vaishaksuresh »

sp332 wrote: post #47
vaishaksuresh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No thanks! If drivers need to be compensated better, I would suggest increasing the fare or Uber taking a smaller cut. A lot of people prefer Uber just so they don't have to deal with tipping like in traditional cabs.

Uber isn't taking a cut. They're subsidizing fares. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/uber-true-cost-uh...

They are subsidizing the passenger's trip, but taking a cut from the driver's fare. There is a difference.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#136

Post by hhw »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41
hhw wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people have always had a negative view of Travis Kalanick and Uber's business practices, but they enjoyed the convenience of the service just enough to look the other way. Between the soaring valuation and recent events, that balance has shifted to the point where some people now refuse to use the service. At the same time, there is a lot of schadenfreude by people who disagree either with the valuat…

How quickly history is rewritten. This is the same company that presented at Startup School several years ago to significant applause.

I think there may be a disconnect between the "a lot of people" I'm referring to, and who you may have in mind. I'm referring to people at large who are aware enough of technology to follow who Uber is, and observed their business practices and Kalanick's predilection for libertarianism. You would seem to be referring to a much more select demographic, such as those who would have been in attendance at Startup School.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#137

Post by fstuff »

hackuser wrote: post #96

I make a habit of talking to taxi drivers about Uber. Consistently they say they drive taxis because there is no money in driving for Uber (which of course that tells us less than it seems, because they are self-selected to be people who prefer driving taxis). One told me something new: I asked, as I often do, if they don't make money then why are there so many Uber drivers? This man said that some Uber drivers are t…

Trapped in a car loan thing is their Xchange leasing program. They give sub prime car loans to anyone with a pulse if they agree to do drive for uber. Their car payments are taken directly from their driver income. These leases are expensive, a corrola costs about 150 a week to lease. People got trapped because after signing uber dropped rates and the driver can't afford their payment and have to work more hours for the same money. Somne simply work to make the payment and no longer earn money for themselves. If you remember the driver that got in a argument with the CEO, this is what he was taking aboutvwhen he said he lost 90k

Check out point #5 https://consumerist.com/2016/05/31/5-things-you-should-know-...

Better article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti...

Quote from above article

He leased a 2016 Toyota Corolla from Xchange in November, paying $155 a week. Two months later, Uber slashed fares nationally. Soon Hofstede had trouble keeping up with his payments. He went from making $200 in a weekend to $140 in a weekend, he said. "It got to the point that I would drive just to meet my payment," he said. "If you were short on your payment for a week it would roll onto the payment for next week. It starts adding up."

End qoute

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#138

Post by aianus »

st3v3r wrote: post #128
aianus wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Lyft have any better margins than Uber once the subsidized growth period is over? If anything Uber will have better margins as they can distribute their fixed costs across more rides due to their global availability.

How many fixed costs are there? It's an app that sends location and messages, and does billing.

Apparently they both have thousands of employees and all in high-cost areas like SF, Seattle, and NYC.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#139

Post by sillysaurus3 »

hhw wrote: post #136
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How quickly history is rewritten. This is the same company that presented at Startup School several years ago to significant applause.

I think there may be a disconnect between the "a lot of people" I'm referring to, and who you may have in mind. I'm referring to people at large who are aware enough of technology to follow who Uber is, and observed their business practices and Kalanick's predilection for libertarianism. You would seem to be referring to a much more select demographic, such as those who would have been in attendance at Startup School…

Good point!

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#140

Post by xbmcuser »

twblalock wrote: post #63
smallgovt wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate on why? The initial condition here is founders having full voting rights. In a free marketplace, they're free to sell shares without (or with little) voting rights as they wish. If investors aren't happy with it (which doesn't seem to be the case), they're free to not invest. You seem to be stating that there's a moral imperative that founders voluntarily give away voting rights to investors.

I don't know if I would call it a "moral" imperative, but it's a basic tenet of good corporate governance that the board, which represents the shareholders, should be able to prevent the management from harming the company or the shareholder's interests. In the case of Uber, the CEO could run the company into the ground, and nobody would be able to prevent that. A trend toward worse corporate governance could harm th…

The investors came into the company knowing he will keep the control it was a risk they were willing to take. Even if he runs it into the ground they don't have a leg to stand on. They were not strong armed into investing it was a choice they made.
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