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Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

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Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#91
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people have always had a negative view of Travis Kalanick and Uber's business practices, but they enjoyed the convenience of the service just enough to look the other way. Between the soaring valuation and recent events, that balance has shifted to the point where some people now refuse to use the service. At the same time, there is a lot of schadenfreude by people who disagree either with the valuat…

How quickly history is rewritten. This is the same company that presented at Startup School several years ago to significant applause.

>How quickly history is rewritten. This is the same company that presented at Startup School several years ago to significant applause.

This is completely unrelated to Uber's cultural and ethical problems.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter if Uber's not actually making money. And they're not, last I heard.

it only matters if they can. Few rapidly growing tech startups make money while still investing in growth.

That 'growth' has included subsidizing rides, so their userbase once the 'growth' levels off will look radically different - likely diminished - from now.

Obviously in larger cities the taxi model can and does thrive, but as Uber's price goes up, more frugal users comfortable with installing new apps will likely move to other platforms that offer the same basic service minus massive investor pockets to fill, while others might use it as a niche transport service for longer-distance ridesharing or as one of several taxi services in cities.

Autonomous could save the margins there, but imo it's another front that Uber won't be able to afford fighting. Once the subsidizing ends, there'll be no love lost between Uber and users eager/happy to stick it to Kalanick and save a few bucks in the process, nor drivers who might've felt slighted/affronted by his or Uber's treatment of them, nor employees/users who don't care for the company's culture.

Time's running out for Uber; whether or not it survives as a big fish basically comes down to how soon autonomous goes mainstream.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also raises another good question: how big of a fool would you have to be to take the job Gurley and the board are trying to fill? How do you rein in a CEO who has total, unchallengeable control of the company? (Maybe if they offer enough money, it's worth it even if it's a suicide mission? Though "just cash the checks and wait for your inevitable dismissal" doesn't seem like an attractive offer for anyone who's g…

In situations like this, in which an executive is hired to reform a company and is set against entrenched management and culture, golden parachutes seem entirely justified to me.

I'm not so sure. Wouldn't it be better for society overall if these companies were condemned to die by their own hand, instead of being able to be saved by an outsider? If they're saved, then all the people who participated in creating this toxic culture are rewarded. If the company goes belly-up, then any valuable assets can be bought by other firms for pennies on the dollar, and those and other competing, and hopefully better-run firms will have a shot at success, with this toxic company cleared out of the market and leaving a void.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#94
post #62
post #7

As a part-time Uber driver in Toronto I haven't noticed any drop-off in ride requests whatsoever. Uber will survive, at least unless someone else beats them to market with an autonomous alternative. I don't get any incentives or bonuses either, just ~75% of the gross receipts from the customer.

You are in a city where Lyft is not available. Does Uber have serious competition in Toronto? Here in California, there is zero downside to using Lyft instead of Uber, so a switch is much easier. The only reason I have Uber on my phone is for trips to Ottawa.

There is no serious competition to Uber in Toronto.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#95
post #44
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point I don't know if even a new CEO could save this company. Honestly I am more concerned about saving the world from this company, because it still looks like they are going to win. Have you seen any signs that Lyft can compete in the worldwide market?

They are in deeper trouble than that. If they cannot resolve the Waymo lawsuit in an economical fashion they will just wither and die, Lyft or not.

They are valued at 70 Billion, how does that just wither and die? One lawsuit can be dragged out a long time and their lawyers will do their best to reduce and fees no matter how wrong Uber actually is (or isn't I don't know).

Consider the size of Uber now and compare that to the size of Microsoft 15 years in the DOJ antitrust trial. They are about the same size, that gives them lots of options.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#96
I make a habit of talking to taxi drivers about Uber. Consistently they say they drive taxis because there is no money in driving for Uber (which of course that tells us less than it seems, because they are self-selected to be people who prefer driving taxis). One told me something new: I asked, as I often do, if they don't make money then why are there so many Uber drivers?

This man said that some Uber drivers are trapped by car loans: They are working-class people who took out loans to buy their Uber cars. All cars lose value the moment they are driven off the lot and these cars are driven hard and for high mileage, so their resale value is low. He said these drivers keep working for Uber because they have to try to pay off the loans. (I know nothing else about that story other than what one random driver told me; I'm hoping others can contribute some better knowledge about it.)

It struck me: Not only does Uber treat their workers like contractors and give them no benefits or other employee protections, but they ask (often) working class people to provide Uber's capital. Arguably, it's like General Motors calling factory workers 'independent contractors' and asking them to bring their own machinery. In contrast, taxi drivers lease the cab for a shift, AFAIK; they have no long-term capital investment or debt trap. It's almost as if Uber's main business proposition is a loophole in labor rules that allows them to shift almost all costs onto their own workers.

That said, I hesitate to pile on, even for a company I don't like personally (which is why I take cabs). Let's not let the hype exceed the reality.

EDIT: A few clarifying edits

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#97

IMHO as a part-time Uber driver, Uber could fix a lot of their current problems by putting tipping into the app. The self-driving car is not here yet, and Uber does not do enough for its drivers. If they would just add tipping I think that better drivers in better cars would start driving again. Without the tips, it's just not worth it.

Tipping is why I won't drive Lyft. Uber is st least honest in that regard, tell me how much the ride costs, don't underquote and expect me to give the driver a bonus for providing the service you agreed to provide.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How quickly history is rewritten. This is the same company that presented at Startup School several years ago to significant applause.

>How quickly history is rewritten. This is the same company that presented at Startup School several years ago to significant applause. This is completely unrelated to Uber's cultural and ethical problems.

The comment was "I think a lot of people have always had a negative view of Travis Kalanick and Uber's business practices, but they enjoyed the convenience of the service just enough to look the other way."

My comment was "Actually, that's not true."

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#99

Honestly, how many other companies, government agencies, or other organizations would hold up under the kind of coordinated, orchestrated drubbing that the media has dished out to Uber over the last couple of months?

The media giveth and the media taketh away. Uber is a glorified cab dispatch organization, desperately fishing around to try to convert some of the insane valuation they enjoy into something more valuable. For years the media has made Uber their darling -- the oft restated misnomer about a "sharing economy" -- giving it what would likely calculate to billions in free press. Retelling the tales about the grand new wor…

insane valuation? probably. Glorified cab dispatcher? Hardly.

The potential of Uber is a worldwide brand with super efficient dispatch. Do you really think it costs them more than a few cents to dispatch rides? There isn't any cab dispatcher in the world with remotely their economies of scale.

Re: Uber is facing the biggest crisis in its history

#100
post #44
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At this point I don't know if even a new CEO could save this company. Honestly I am more concerned about saving the world from this company, because it still looks like they are going to win. Have you seen any signs that Lyft can compete in the worldwide market?

They are in deeper trouble than that. If they cannot resolve the Waymo lawsuit in an economical fashion they will just wither and die, Lyft or not.

They have raised $15B+ and spent what, less than $5B? They have lots of runway left.
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