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Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

nytimes.com

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Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#31

Post by Gibbon1 »

int_19h wrote: post #24
Gibbon1 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could be difference between owning your dead fathers axe and owning the axe that a vagabond used to kill people in the village.

The value of a metal axe in that time was immense. It seems unlikely that such sentiments would be sufficient justification to just leave it there.

I tend to assume if metal tools were extremely expensive then they would be not commonly in use.

3500 years after Otzi, there are Roman prices for stuff.

https://www.academia.edu/23644199/New_English_translation_of...

This gives a days unskilled labor at 25 Denarii, where a lb of Hammered Bronze was 60 Denarii.

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#32

Post by ziotom78 »

simonhn wrote: post #14

The museum in Bolzano, Italy where Ötzi is held is well worth a visit and the items found with the body mentioned in this article are also on display with theories about their use and significance: http://www.iceman.it/

I agree, I think this is one of the best museums I've ever visited! Other more famous museums (e.g., El Prado in Madrid) overwhelm visitors with a lot of stuff presented in a quasi-random order. On the other hand, this one is extremely well-thought, with a good use of multimedia and clear explanations provided along the path.

Museum's website: http://www.iceman.it/en/

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#34

Post by Jaruzel »

srinivaskag wrote: post #33

Where are mummies of other villagers? Everyone of the villagers should also be preserved as icy mummies in the same region. Right?

Wrong. It's assumed that the village in question was located lower down in the valley. Ozti himself was found very high up (10,000+ feet).

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#35

Post by fapjacks »

salesguy222 wrote: post #18
autokad wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah i was surprised they ignored that in the article. I disagree with 'they didn't steal anything because the village would recognize it'. that hasn't stopped much people in present day. they kind of ignore the fact that despite having a kills shot, they didn't go in to make sure he was dead like a zombieland double tap. also, if he had a disabling wound 2 days ago, why wasn't he in the village getting care? i had w…

I think in the PBS documentary or something like it on youtube, they found a pretty big cerebral bruise on Otzi. It's possible someone hit him with a rock to finish him off, or he hit his head on a rock when he was reacting to being wounded. It seems that he was used to covering long distances and routinely got into fights. Otzi is probably similar to a cave raider from Oblivion :)

I disagree with him being a kind of raider, only because what does everyone do in Oblivion when they murder one of those cave raiders? Loot his corpse of anything valuable. Nobody looted Ötzi's corpse. I found the argument in the article of some kind of domestic incident compelling, especially in light of his valuables not being taken. And I think the "human sacrifice" argument seems like a real stretch.

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#36

Post by zumu »

Jabanga wrote: post #26

Otzi looks remarkably similar to Kris Kristofferson http://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/Abraham-Whistler-... I wonder if this is an indication that modern people from Scandinavia, where half of Kristofferson's ancestors are from, are more similar to older European populations, while the European South and Centre saw more change through migrations.

Otzi is a member of haplogroup G[1], which is fairly rare in Europe, especially Scandinavia, while more common in the Caucasus and near east.

1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRXiwWpmSbs

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#37

Post by simonh »

srinivaskag wrote: post #33

Where are mummies of other villagers? Everyone of the villagers should also be preserved as icy mummies in the same region. Right?

He wasn’t found is the remains of a village, but at a solo camp site far up in the mountains. He was killed there and his body was covered in snow and ice soon after, which preserved it.

Analysis of his stomach contents gives evidence that he visited a village down in the valley where it would be warmer and had a meal there, because semi-digested food in his stomach is consistent with the sort of food you’d normally only have access to in that kind of environment. I think that's mainly from pollen analysis.

It would be very unusual to find an entire village and it’s population entombed in ice. They would all have to die at the same time (nobody left to bury the bodies) and their bodies be left exposed and undisturbed to be frozen. Usually when someone dies the rest of the population would bury them, but in this case because he was killed and abandoned the body was left in a situation where it could be naturally preserved.

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#38

Post by pvaldes »

Alex3917 wrote: post #29
INTPenis wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love all the speculation in this thread so I thought I'd just chime in and say blood from four different people has reportedly been found on his weapons. I believe both axe and arrow heads. This was on HN a few weeks back but I couldn't find that particular article, instead I found one on NatGeo[1] from 2003 saying the same thing. 1. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1030_031030_...

> blood from four different people has reportedly been found on his weapons. This article doesn't mention it, but he was also carrying a birch polypore, which is a styptic.

Is more probable that the polypore would be used as tinder

On the other hand, the use of ash wood in the knife is a smart move.

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#39

Post by oska »

nickbauman wrote: post #5
woogiewonka wrote: post #3

I wonder if Otzi was the instigator in the described conflict. The piece describes him as someone who was not a laborer but did plenty of walking. I can imagine a vagabond type individual traveling place to place taking his pickings from the weaker groups (or perhaps stealing and stabbing in the process seeing how he had little upper body strength but carried a dagger). His clothing is made of multiple furs of multip…

Doesn't explain why Otzi's valuable possessions weren't taken by the avenger. The artifacts were likely left behind because Otzi had ties to the village. Taking those possessions would have tied the avenger to his actions, likely putting the avenger at risk all over again.

Perhaps he was shot with the arrow on the edge of a cliff and then fell down into/onto the glacier. The killer wasn't able to take his effects because they were irretrievable from the place into which he fell.

Re: Who Killed Ötzi the Iceman? Clues Emerge

#40

Post by aedron »

oska wrote: post #39
nickbauman wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't explain why Otzi's valuable possessions weren't taken by the avenger. The artifacts were likely left behind because Otzi had ties to the village. Taking those possessions would have tied the avenger to his actions, likely putting the avenger at risk all over again.

Perhaps he was shot with the arrow on the edge of a cliff and then fell down into/onto the glacier. The killer wasn't able to take his effects because they were irretrievable from the place into which he fell.

This seems by far the most likely reason. Few scenarios would explain why such valuable possessions were left alone.

He had obviously been involved in an altercation with some controversy, otherwise he would have seeked treatment rather than go up into the mountains. So his slaying would not have been a secret that needed to be covered up, as this article posits as the reason for his belongings being untouched.

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