Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#201

Post by coldtea » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 10:27 PM UTC

bonestamp2 wrote: post #72

Lasher wrote: post #4

I purchased Quickbooks Pro 2017 (PC) on Amazon last week, said it was "sold by Intuit" so wasn't even supposed to be an FBA (fulfilled by Amazon). Figured if it costs no more I might as well get the physical disk. What showed up was a DVD case with a very clearly photocopied cover for a Mac version with a Verbatim CDR inside and a hacked version of the software. Amazon processed the refund just fine but didn't seem p…

Amazon isn't going to take this seriously until a major company gets burned and the FBI gets involved. Then Amazon will experience what every other company does that gets burned for selling counterfeit goods... the FBI will raid their warehouse and hold all the inventory as evidence until they complete their investigation. Like you said, Amazon doesn't seem concerned that they're selling counterfeit goods -- probably…

>Then Amazon will experience what every other company does that gets burned for selling counterfeit goods... the FBI will raid their warehouse and hold all the inventory as evidence until they complete their investigation

You'd be surprised what being a big company can do to protect you from such actions by the FBI.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#202

Post by dreamcompiler » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 10:27 PM UTC

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #120

crazygringo wrote: post #114

Is there anyone here who can shed some light as to why ? It's impossible for me to believe that it's part of Amazon's strategy to encourage, or even allow, counterfeits -- it might be fine for a smaller company, but it appears to be doing real brand damage at this point. Yet Amazon shows no signs of stopping it -- this has been going on for years. Is it just a really hard problem for some reason that isn't obvious? (…

Amazon is likely stats blinded: their internal metrics say "all good", so they ignore the stories people are telling as anecdotes without ever doing the analysis on how often those "anecdotes" happen. Further, that their stats are ungrounded (not tied to any hard-to-attack real world tests) and fail to capture data which would demonstrate the issue. I believe the FBA and FMA teams are a fundamental blunder opposed to…

This is one of the most insightful comments I've read on HN and it explains the factors at play when a big company won't respond to issues the outside world can plainly see are problems: The stats are good, the stats measure the wrong things, and whoever inside the company first suggests that a change is needed will probably limit their career.

It's also a good explanation of Apple's non-response to their increasingly poor software quality and their de-facto abandonment of the content-creator market.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#203

Post by Bjartr » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 10:50 PM UTC

crazygringo wrote: post #114

Is there anyone here who can shed some light as to why ? It's impossible for me to believe that it's part of Amazon's strategy to encourage, or even allow, counterfeits -- it might be fine for a smaller company, but it appears to be doing real brand damage at this point. Yet Amazon shows no signs of stopping it -- this has been going on for years. Is it just a really hard problem for some reason that isn't obvious? (…

My thinking is that it's a lot easier on the logistics of fast delivery times. When someone comingles inventory with Amazon it means someone else paid the initial shipping cost from manufacturer to Amazon warehouse. It could even be in Amazon's best interest (on paper only, thus the quality issues) to preferentially ship the commingled inventory before dipping into their direct purchases to maximize profit per sale by reducing pressure on Amazon itself to keep their inventory topped off, since, as I'd bet any business owner that sells physical product can tell you, money tied up on warehouse shelves is not doing you any good.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#204

Post by exolymph » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 10:51 PM UTC

throaway2137582 wrote: post #188

Throwaway for various reasons. Amazon seller / vendor here with over $5MM in annual sales. We sell to both Amazon directly and fulfill via FBA when PO's are delayed due to their archaic purchasing system. Let me tell you guys what the real problem is, you ready for it? CHINA When Bezos opened up the platform to Chinese sellers in 2015, they FLOODED the market with not only counterfeit items but straight illegal busin…

Hey there, I'm the author of this article. If you are willing to talk about your experience — it can be off-the-record if you want — please email me: smann@inc.com

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#205

Post by dec0dedab0de » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 10:53 PM UTC

rkeene2 wrote: post #94

billpollock wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct. One issue we've faced is that people will give the counterfeits one-star although most people reviewing the book give it four or five stars. That just ends up hurting us unfortunately. It took Amazon over three months to remove those one star reviews from one of our counterfeited books.

Wait... So Amazon removed legitimate reviews from people who bought the product being sold on the page being reviewed because the product being sold is sometimes counterfeit ? How are other people attempting to purchase that item from that page supposed to learn that the item may sometimes be counterfeit and act in a rational way or with a correct risk assessment when valid data is being expunged without any other ch…

The valid 1 Star reviews should stay !

but those should be reviews of amazon, not reviews of the book.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#206

Post by phil21 » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 11:01 PM UTC

kveykva wrote: post #93

tyingq wrote: post #3

The article makes a good point that aside from enforcement issues, Amazon leaves the seller of the genuine item in a bad spot. Like one-star reviews of the product (due to fakes) staying for months. The whole product listing being taken down instead of just the seller with fakes being shut down. The lack of real communication with the seller of the genuine product, and so on. Edit: Perhaps some additional manual effo…

Amazon already has some serious issues on the side of returns and issues like this. They accept basically anything - return fraud was another huge issue that came up earlier this year. Scammer would buy something like an iPhone, take out the phone, fill the box with clay or something, send it back to Amazon. Amazon just accepts the huge majority of returns and the seller is who gets hurt. (Obviously matters much more…

This has been the norm far more than a year - sellers I know have had to deal with things like high-end GPUs replaced with a 10 year old model and/or brick and returned as "broken" for 3-4 years now.

Pretty much any marketplace (including banks and credit merchant accounts) puts the vendor 100% at risk for consumer fraud.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#207

Post by AdamJacobMuller » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 11:04 PM UTC

bonestamp2 wrote: post #72

Lasher wrote: post #4

I purchased Quickbooks Pro 2017 (PC) on Amazon last week, said it was "sold by Intuit" so wasn't even supposed to be an FBA (fulfilled by Amazon). Figured if it costs no more I might as well get the physical disk. What showed up was a DVD case with a very clearly photocopied cover for a Mac version with a Verbatim CDR inside and a hacked version of the software. Amazon processed the refund just fine but didn't seem p…

Amazon isn't going to take this seriously until a major company gets burned and the FBI gets involved. Then Amazon will experience what every other company does that gets burned for selling counterfeit goods... the FBI will raid their warehouse and hold all the inventory as evidence until they complete their investigation. Like you said, Amazon doesn't seem concerned that they're selling counterfeit goods -- probably…

> hold all the inventory as evidence

With the FBA situation, why would amazon even care?

Amazon will just tell the seller, "X from your inventory was just sized by the FBI, talk to them if you want it back"

The seller has no leverage against Amazon, Amazon is out no money, Amazon will just get another shipment of counterfeit widgets the next day.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#208

Post by throwaway049 » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 11:06 PM UTC

Pyxl101 wrote: post #193

throwawaylalala wrote: post #183

I private label. Amazon's respose process for this is completely broken. Right now we are having several entities jump on; as part of our process for getting counterfieters off of our listibgs we make test buys; probably 10 buyers have sent exactly the same email, including a weird space between a word and a comma. Want to know how truly bad it is? Look at this listing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00DVKJ…

What conclusion should be drawn from that listing?

I'm not the OP, but I am suspicious of most of the sellers being 'just launched' or having very few instances of feedback. Also the seller names don't look like anything I would pick it I wanted to name my business.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#209

Post by woodandsteel » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 11:10 PM UTC

I am guessing one reason for the FBA program is it allows them to scale up their logistics operation larger than it would otherwise be, and that helps them lower the cost per item and out-compete other companies.

Remember, Amazon's long-term goal is to take over the world, and it needs to do all sorts of things to get there.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#210

Post by phil21 » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 11:10 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #132

tzakrajs wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jet seems to have very similar inventory to Amazon (even on obscure or niche stuff, like springs for my 2015 Ford Taurus), eerily so. What is more, several times I have been credited money to my account because Jet didn't have the product they claimed to have (the springs...). Weird.

Can you elaborate on the actual claim you seem to be dancing around? I'm not completely following...

I can't speak for the OP, but for me I've noticed this looking for hard-to-find specific products as well.

You will find that what appears to be wide availability is usually 2 or 3 third-party vendors spamming the same thing multiple times to multiple sites. This becomes especially apparent once you actually order something, and it takes 2 weeks for the vendor to say it's not in stock. Repeat that process across 4 or 5 major sites like amazon/jet/walmart/sears/newegg/etc. and it gets a bit tiring. Seemingly everyone now has a "marketplace" section and purposefully makes it difficult to filter it.

Basically it seems the "long tail" of on-line retail shares the same very few number of marginal-at-best players who take an approach of spamming tons of low quality listings in the hope of fulfilling even a fraction of it.

Once you look for it, you notice this pattern (e.g. a spelling mistake in a given part listing you need) quite often and realize it might even be a single "root" vendor after you get through the chains of middlemen.