Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#81

Post by jon-wood » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #73

phil21 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that it can say "Sold by Amazon" and still be co-mingled stock some third party seller tossed the same SKU on. So there is no way to even know who the actual seller is. Amazon could end this particular fraud literally overnight by no longer co-mingling, but I suspect that would be wildly expensive for them to do. Your method is fine for actual accounts selling scammy things - the problem is when those…

They could comingle and still solve the problems whenever they get stock from a seller they slap on an Amazon barcode that identifies both the UPC and the Amazon seller. That information gets included in the purchase details and when problems are identified with a product they pull those products and identify people who got the bad product. To cover the cost of that problem they can require sellers to insure their pr…

They effectively do require a deposit in case of returns in the way they pay. When you ship a product sold on Amazon they take the money immediately, but they don't pass on your cut until a few weeks later, allowing them to issue refunds if neccesary without losing anything themselves.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#82

Post by emodendroket » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

bonestamp2 wrote: post #72

Lasher wrote: post #4

I purchased Quickbooks Pro 2017 (PC) on Amazon last week, said it was "sold by Intuit" so wasn't even supposed to be an FBA (fulfilled by Amazon). Figured if it costs no more I might as well get the physical disk. What showed up was a DVD case with a very clearly photocopied cover for a Mac version with a Verbatim CDR inside and a hacked version of the software. Amazon processed the refund just fine but didn't seem p…

Amazon isn't going to take this seriously until a major company gets burned and the FBI gets involved. Then Amazon will experience what every other company does that gets burned for selling counterfeit goods... the FBI will raid their warehouse and hold all the inventory as evidence until they complete their investigation. Like you said, Amazon doesn't seem concerned that they're selling counterfeit goods -- probably…

There is probably a calculation that the feds will be reticent to do that to an Amazon warehouse as they're generally major employers in the areas they're built in.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#83

Post by jacquesm » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

So here is my short version of this: I got burned like this (twice!) and have stopped ordering on Amazon completely even though I got refunded both times.

Amazon excels in short term thinking on this subject, I wonder how long it will take them before the coin drops.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#84

Post by tzakrajs » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 5:38 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #57

danjayh wrote: post #5

Amazon is a cluster all-around. They can't keep counterfeits off (I just recently got a 'samsung' battery that would only charge to 80%), and they can't police legit products correctly either. I've seen tons of horror stories from owners of FBA private labels who'v had their products pulled by Amazon for being 'counterfeit' because one of their competitors reported them in an attempt to reduce competition. Takes week…

Be careful jumping on the Walmart train. Their online marketplace has recently started including third-party sellers as well. I'm not sure how they police them or if they're any better than Amazon, but you're not implicitly free from these concerns just by going to Walmart.com instead of Amazon.com. I would guess that Walmart doesn't commingle stock from third-party sellers, since it's such a bad idea, but I don't kn…

Jet seems to have very similar inventory to Amazon (even on obscure or niche stuff, like springs for my 2015 Ford Taurus), eerily so. What is more, several times I have been credited money to my account because Jet didn't have the product they claimed to have (the springs...). Weird.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#85

Post by arcticbull » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

nagvx wrote: post #70

danjayh wrote: post #5

Amazon is a cluster all-around. They can't keep counterfeits off (I just recently got a 'samsung' battery that would only charge to 80%), and they can't police legit products correctly either. I've seen tons of horror stories from owners of FBA private labels who'v had their products pulled by Amazon for being 'counterfeit' because one of their competitors reported them in an attempt to reduce competition. Takes week…

>They can't keep counterfeits off (I just recently got a 'samsung' battery that would only charge to 80%), Are you sure that it is counterfeit? 80% is a common charging cutoff point for Li-ion batteries to minimise wear-and-tear. Usually it is enforced in software.

They're shipped at 60%, though any charge cap would still be reported as 100% by the logic in the battery. I know my MacBook doesn't say 80%: Full! ;)

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#86

Post by mdp » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

Lasher wrote: post #4

I purchased Quickbooks Pro 2017 (PC) on Amazon last week, said it was "sold by Intuit" so wasn't even supposed to be an FBA (fulfilled by Amazon). Figured if it costs no more I might as well get the physical disk. What showed up was a DVD case with a very clearly photocopied cover for a Mac version with a Verbatim CDR inside and a hacked version of the software. Amazon processed the refund just fine but didn't seem p…

Try buying any Apple accessories. I wanted to buy the genuine Apple headphones, but it's absolutely impossible to on Amazon. "Sold by Apple" product shows up from a seller in Boston, clearly counterfeit. Report it to Amazon and they suggest mailing it back for a refund. Zero concern that the seller is labeling their goods as genuine Apple and then sending knock-offs.

Prior to this I got a set of grey market Gillette blades that were fulfilled by Amazon.

Like you, I've been with Amazon for nearly 20 years, but I've recently started being more selective about what I order from them. I'm surprised that they aren't tackling this more.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#87

Post by brazzledazzle » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

cgriswald wrote: post #63

JohnTHaller wrote: post #28

I was looking at a Dohm sound generator on Amazon and most of the top reviews are 1 star reviews stating that the item shipped and sold by Amazon (not fulfilled by, sold by) was showing up as a cheap counterfeit. Made in China (instead of the US), fan rattling within a few days, fake UL approved sticker, etc. Amazon refunded their money but didn't appear to care about the issue, likely due to the inventory mixing bet…

It's not just fakes. I bought a new, high-end, fulfilled-by-amazon kitchen aid mixer for my ex-girlfriend. It looked legitimate, but it had clearly been re-boxed at some point, was missing parts, and had grease all over it. IIRC, it wasn't sealed in a normal way either. Amazon accepted our return, and like you I just went straight to the manufacturer to make the purchase again.

What is Amazon thinking? They're slowly destroying their brand.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#88

Post by arcticbull » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 5:43 PM UTC

emu wrote: post #13

It's trivially easy to run into counterfeit products on Amazon. Here's an example I pulled up in 2 minutes of searching: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-A1385-Adapter-Charger-iPhone/dp... I see two sellers offering an iPhone charger, ostensibly genuine and new, as low as USD 3.19. Compare with the Apple listing for the same item for USD 19: http://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD810LL/A/apple-5w-usb-pow... There is no way…

Solid review from the link: "The item came in a Ziploc bag and more importantly, it's a fake."

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#89

Post by bonestamp2 » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

emodendroket wrote: post #82

bonestamp2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon isn't going to take this seriously until a major company gets burned and the FBI gets involved. Then Amazon will experience what every other company does that gets burned for selling counterfeit goods... the FBI will raid their warehouse and hold all the inventory as evidence until they complete their investigation. Like you said, Amazon doesn't seem concerned that they're selling counterfeit goods -- probably…

There is probably a calculation that the feds will be reticent to do that to an Amazon warehouse as they're generally major employers in the areas they're built in.

Hopefully you're right (for the employee's sake). But given the Bezos/Trump feud, if I were Bezos I'd be very cautious about giving the feds any valid reason (with lots of precedence) to shut down any warehouses for an investigation.

Re: Amazon's Tepid Response to Counterfeiters Frustrates Sellers

#90

Post by kveykva » Sat, Mar 25, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #41

new299 wrote: post #30

Counterfeit products seem to becoming a near universal problem. It's not just amazon, but other marketplaces (eBay, taobao etc). Even seems like major electronic component suppliers fall foul of this sometimes (digikey). I can really only see three solutions: 1. We just buy everything direct from the supplier. Companies like amazon manage distribution. 2. We provide tools to allow the consumer to track the supply cha…

> 2. We provide tools to allow the consumer to track the supply chain process. Products shipped with unique QR code, printed at the of manufacture? Users able to verify that this product was actually manufactured by the stated supplier. Could be an interesting startup idea? Yes, it does sound like a fantastic opportunity! How would it work though? Every single instance of product would have to have its own id that wo…

Because this particular cheat has happened to us and we added systems to prevent it:

We already do serialize each unit for customers. So when cases started appearing like this we would also apply another code to the box the unit is placed into. Our system then associates both of them - taking photos of each when that occurs.

This prevents the changing of what unit is in a box.

Peeling off the sticker is actually pretty easily prevented entirely by the photo, humans aren't very good at placing stickers exactly the same way as they're initially applied. Compounded by our use of self-destructive stickers where possible.