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Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

angularjs.blogspot.com

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Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#241

Post by daliwali »

ssijak wrote: post #183

Hmm. I see that Angular is getting aaaaalot of hate here. I really tried to understand why but have not found really valid reasons, just preferences. I have used Angular 1.x a lot and have just tried Angular 2. It really enables me (somebody who comes from primarily strong backend dev experience) to work on frontend SPA apps productively and fast. It does not 'feel' heavyweight or that it gets in my way too much, but…

There is probably a non-trivial amount of astroturfing here, but also software developers are people too, and people get dogmatic about their opinions.

I probably won't ever use Angular unless I find myself desperate for work and can't find anything else. The problem I see inherent in frameworks is that they are all dogmatic about their opinions, and thus criticism of frameworks often do boil down to "I don't agree with their opinion", sometimes with rationalizations mixed in.

Preferences aside, Angular is objectively one of, if not the most, heaviest frameworks for web front-ends. It is not just a matter of bandwidth to the end user, but also a lot of magic under the hood that developers have to deal with. Consider the Java mindset that may have inspired Angular, people don't want to deal with that level of verbosity and enterprise mentality.

Unfortunately, there are increasingly few employment options if you want to use anything other than React or Angular. So rather than framing this argument in terms of framework hate, consider it a problem that lots of developers are forced to use these frameworks in order to be more like easily replaceable cogs in a machine, or be unemployed.

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#242

Post by throwasehasdwi »

jondubois wrote: post #231
danielpatrick wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Angular 2 for a medium sized application that will be going into production within the next few weeks. I'm not affiliated with the Angular team at all. I started using it when this app was very much a POC last summer, just as the Angular team was finishing up the 2.0 release. I learned firsthand last summer the issues with using a framework that was still in the oven: constant updates and some depende…

I don't particularly like TypeScript. It slows me down because of several reasons: - Compile time means that it takes more time to debug anything. - The rigid interfaces mean that I need to spend more time researching how to use various modules/libraries (maybe code completion would offset this problem but this is only possible with a heavy IDE that has intellisense or similar - Not Atom). - When I want to test somet…

Your complaints against "heavy" IDE's don't make sense. All of the points you made either aren't valid or don't matter.

- They're slow and clunky Not anything I've used. Eclipse and Visual Studio run nice and smooth on a decent machine.

- The use up a ton of memory. Who cares. Slack and anything based on electron uses hundreds of megabytes. Chrome regularly uses gigs. Most of the IDE's I use take less than 500 megabytes of ram, even phones have plenty.

- They make your team lazy when it comes to structuring your source code into proper folders Absolutely not. Your reasoning is that making things easier = making code worse. The IDE you use has nothing to do with your dev culture

- They take ages to install. Some of them do, notably Visual Studio. All the other ones I've used just take a few minutes. Also, who cares??? You only have to install it once, what is 5 minutes for an app you're going to use for thousands of hours???

- Support fewer operating systems. No. IDE's based on java run on almost anything. Again I think you're speaking from the experience of using visual studio.

- Are usually proprietary and difficult to customize. Also no. Every IDE I've used supports plugins and an unholy amount of configuration options. Every IDE I use is open source, again except visual studio.

- More prone to bugs. What? Why? How?

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#243

Post by throwasehasdwi »

vog wrote: post #222
alttab wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's been your experience with browser-side debugging? The one thing that scares me about typescript is you end up debugging something you didn't write.

That's why I'd personally prefer Flow for that. It has a more elaborate type system anyway. [1] Moreover, Flow is pure annotation, which can be removed by Babel. And Flow is also backed by a large company (Facebook instead of Microsoft). However, if you do want to generate JS, use a language that elminiates runtime errors almost completely, such as Elm or OCaml (through bucklescript or js-of-ocaml). [1] The following…

Your comment neglects to mention that Typescript debugging is generally easy because one of the design goals of typescript is to produce javascript that matches what a developer would write.

Debugging javascript produced by Babel is generally hell in comparison. The transforms done by Babel are not designed to be human readable and they generally aren't.

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#244

Post by throwasehasdwi »

daliwali wrote: post #241
ssijak wrote: post #183

Hmm. I see that Angular is getting aaaaalot of hate here. I really tried to understand why but have not found really valid reasons, just preferences. I have used Angular 1.x a lot and have just tried Angular 2. It really enables me (somebody who comes from primarily strong backend dev experience) to work on frontend SPA apps productively and fast. It does not 'feel' heavyweight or that it gets in my way too much, but…

There is probably a non-trivial amount of astroturfing here, but also software developers are people too, and people get dogmatic about their opinions. I probably won't ever use Angular unless I find myself desperate for work and can't find anything else. The problem I see inherent in frameworks is that they are all dogmatic about their opinions, and thus criticism of frameworks often do boil down to "I don't agree w…

given that both frameworks are open source I highly doubt any astroturfing on either side. I think what you're seeing is a bunch of developers riled up :)

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#245

Post by esistgut »

fareesh wrote: post #127
robwormald wrote: post #9

Angular core team here, we're pretty excited about this release. Main change, as noted, is the new View Engine. The design doc[0] is worth a read if you're interested in front-end at all. Happy to answer any questions! [0] https://docs.google.com/document/d/195L4WaDSoI_kkW094LlShH6g...

We're using the universal fork of the CLI with the recent AOT (client side) patch for a current project. Will my upgrade path be straightforward? The project is a simple content based website which consumes a ruby API that we had built earlier. We use universal for setting up meta tags, crawlability, etc.

https://github.com/devCrossNet/universal-cli/issues/101#issu... looks like the fork is going to be deprecated soon. I find the lack of documentation on universal a little bit frustrating, the only documentation I found is a blog post https://www.softwarearchitekt.at/post/2017/03/07/server-side... but the whole process is built on ng eject which removes some cli automations.

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#246

Post by hockeybias »

jondubois wrote: post #231
danielpatrick wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using Angular 2 for a medium sized application that will be going into production within the next few weeks. I'm not affiliated with the Angular team at all. I started using it when this app was very much a POC last summer, just as the Angular team was finishing up the 2.0 release. I learned firsthand last summer the issues with using a framework that was still in the oven: constant updates and some depende…

I don't particularly like TypeScript. It slows me down because of several reasons: - Compile time means that it takes more time to debug anything. - The rigid interfaces mean that I need to spend more time researching how to use various modules/libraries (maybe code completion would offset this problem but this is only possible with a heavy IDE that has intellisense or similar - Not Atom). - When I want to test somet…

With all due respect, your laundry list sounds a bit naive.

A typed language will save you debugging time - if you are serious about your debugging.

You don't need to design interfaces if you don't want to use them.

If you don't like heavy IDEs use VS code or one of the other lightweight editors for your TypeScript work. I think you'll find it a good deal easier to work with if you do so.

I would bag TypeScript if your team consists of just you. But if you are working with others, I think using TypeScript will pay off.

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#248

Post by shadowmint »

ssijak wrote: post #183

Hmm. I see that Angular is getting aaaaalot of hate here. I really tried to understand why but have not found really valid reasons, just preferences. I have used Angular 1.x a lot and have just tried Angular 2. It really enables me (somebody who comes from primarily strong backend dev experience) to work on frontend SPA apps productively and fast. It does not 'feel' heavyweight or that it gets in my way too much, but…

I can only speak from personal experience, but I've worked on 2 SPA angular apps that were both a nightmare.

The react apps I've worked on have been much more successful; we haven't had to throw the whole thing away (unlike one of those angular ones...)

I'm sure other people have had other experiences, but after two terrible experiences, the questions I would ask are:

- Why would I bother looking at angular again?

- What has significantly changed in the last year to reduce the complexity, increase the component ecosystem or increase the quality and quantity of the documentation?

If you can't answer either of those with meaningful answers, I don't see any reason, given the other alternatives to angular that are around, to try using it again.

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#249

Post by throwasehasdwi »

gravlaks wrote: post #196
Retozi wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree 100%. TypeScript is an invaluable, mature technology that provides large productivity boosts to any team that maintains a mid-sized code base. It plays extremely well with React too, and it's benefits are independent of the tech stack. If you are used to typed components/templates, you will NEVER want to go back. I would argue that is more important to have static typing in the front-end compared to the back-…

In 2014 I used Typescript on a four month long project. I liked it alot compared to using just JS, however compiling was slow. I retried using Typescript 1 month ago. Compiling took 6-7 seconds for about 8 files. I could not find a solution and gave up using TS. I hope that's just me doing not good enough research.

Definitely something up with your environment. We compile hundreds of .ts files at my job each build and it only takes a few seconds

Re: Angular 4.0.0 Now Available

#250

Post by ng12 »

azurelogic wrote: post #237
ssijak wrote: post #183

Hmm. I see that Angular is getting aaaaalot of hate here. I really tried to understand why but have not found really valid reasons, just preferences. I have used Angular 1.x a lot and have just tried Angular 2. It really enables me (somebody who comes from primarily strong backend dev experience) to work on frontend SPA apps productively and fast. It does not 'feel' heavyweight or that it gets in my way too much, but…

Try Vue.js. It's what Angular 2 could have been, if they had taken proper advantage of ES2015 and virtual DOM. Another way of looking at it: Angular 1 and React had a baby, and they named it Vue.js. Vue has HTML templates like Angular and virtual DOM like React. It is faster than both of them. It has a smaller file size than both of them. It has a clever single file component concept that makes developing components…

Why are HTML templates a good thing? It's hands down my least favorite part of Vue.
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