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Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

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Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consensus is that unchecked GW would not be a human extinction event.

Oh so it's not the end of the entirety of human beings, instead it's just the end of civilized modern society as we know it! Phew THAT was close!

Unchecked GW may possibly very well kill millions of people, and destroy quality of life for millions more, but it won't be the end of civilization.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#182
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In layman's terms, how much are we screwed without hope of a solution, and what is the rough timeframe before the evening news starts looking like "The Day After Tomorrow?"

Our grandchildren are in for tough times. Unless a political miracle occurs. Even then, it might be too late.

More likely our models will turn out to be slightly wrong and it won't be as apocalyptic as we thought and we'll adjust according to our observed reality.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#183

Here is a good video about the arctic methane emergency: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F9ed5E54s4 Some summary points: - Total amount of methane in the current atmosphere: ~5 gigatons - Amount of carbon preserved as methane in the arctic shelf: estimated at 100s-1000s of gigatons - Only 1% release would double the atmospheric burden of methane - Not much effort is needed to destabilize this 1% - The volume current…

I apologize for not watching the video, but what sort of effects will these increased levels have on humans, plants, and other life on the planet? It doesn't sound like it would be beneficial.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#184
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we can't figure out an engineering solution to this problem then it's game over. It always amazes me how much people and governments focus on prevention when it comes to climate change, knowing full well it's far too late to change anything by reducing carbon emissions. If we can't sequester these 'surplus' gases from the atmosphere then I guess you could say we don't have a chance in hell, pun intended, of surviv…

IMHO, even if we end up needing some mega-geoengineering project for our survival, it would still be cheaper if we first stop our CO2 emission and then plan for geoengineering, rather than building something scaled for our current CO2 emission trajectory. Basically, if an oil tanker is leaking oil all over the beach, we should first plug the goddamn hole before talking about (expensive) solutions to clean up the cont…

I think the problem if we are in you scenario is that 200 people own parts of the oil tanker and the beach is owned by 200 people and not everyone wants to pay for the costs of cleaning up the contamination, and that we have to get permission from the owners of each separate plot of beach and mone from each of the 200 people to pay for the cleanup to make the analogy of people roughly equivalent to countries and our current predicament - one or two powerful, rich people could pay for the whole thing but if they decide they don't believe in cleaning up and letting things be they could mess up things for all 200 by themselves.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#185

Here is a good video about the arctic methane emergency: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F9ed5E54s4 Some summary points: - Total amount of methane in the current atmosphere: ~5 gigatons - Amount of carbon preserved as methane in the arctic shelf: estimated at 100s-1000s of gigatons - Only 1% release would double the atmospheric burden of methane - Not much effort is needed to destabilize this 1% - The volume current…

I wonder how many of these bubbles are harvestable into useful fuel? Prevent a crisis and stockpile fuel at the same time? Obviously it's nicer if we could get everyone to sign the Kyoto treaty but ...

from what i understand, just burning it would improve the situation too. bearing in mind that i don't know much about chemistry and this is entirely from google: when burned, 1 CH4 turns into 1 CO2 and 2 H2O, so you essentially trade CH4 for CO2.

that ignores the whole CH4 being a short term problem thing though...

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#186

Here is a good video about the arctic methane emergency: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F9ed5E54s4 Some summary points: - Total amount of methane in the current atmosphere: ~5 gigatons - Amount of carbon preserved as methane in the arctic shelf: estimated at 100s-1000s of gigatons - Only 1% release would double the atmospheric burden of methane - Not much effort is needed to destabilize this 1% - The volume current…

I apologize for not watching the video, but what sort of effects will these increased levels have on humans, plants, and other life on the planet? It doesn't sound like it would be beneficial.

Extinction for the most part

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#187
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many of these bubbles are harvestable into useful fuel? Prevent a crisis and stockpile fuel at the same time? Obviously it's nicer if we could get everyone to sign the Kyoto treaty but ...

Where're you going to store that much gas?

mentioned in a sibling comment to yours, but maybe we can just burn it? AFAIK 1 CH4 turns into 1 CO2 when burned, and that might be better

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#188
post #79

Here is another article about the same event (in german) that has an aerial view supposedly showing the distribution of the craters over one of the islands: http://www.spektrum.de/news/7000-gasblasen-woelben-sich-in-s... (The craters filled with water, hence the dark color. The picture doesn't say anything about the craters' depth) I don't know about the source though, so I guess it should be taken with a grain of sa…

Source of the image https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=6034

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#189
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we can't figure out an engineering solution to this problem then it's game over. It always amazes me how much people and governments focus on prevention when it comes to climate change, knowing full well it's far too late to change anything by reducing carbon emissions. If we can't sequester these 'surplus' gases from the atmosphere then I guess you could say we don't have a chance in hell, pun intended, of surviv…

IMHO, even if we end up needing some mega-geoengineering project for our survival, it would still be cheaper if we first stop our CO2 emission and then plan for geoengineering, rather than building something scaled for our current CO2 emission trajectory. Basically, if an oil tanker is leaking oil all over the beach, we should first plug the goddamn hole before talking about (expensive) solutions to clean up the cont…

If we stop the CO2 generation, do we have enough industry left to perform the mega-geoengineering?

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the only option either. Combine that solution on a massive scale with re-forestation and (even though eventually it's CO2 neutral) it might actually make a dent. My go-to model was always: - Plant heliostat molten salt reactors in desert coastal areas [1] - Use generated heat to desalinate water - Use desalinated water to provide irrigation - Plant (potentially GMO'ed) bootstrapping organisms to create a soi…

Yes, re-forestation or afforestation is another scheme worth considering. It can't scale up to the extent of accelerated silicate weathering but it could reach a scale of gigatons of CO2 per year. And it could produce food, wood products, and desirable living space for humans where once there were deserts with little biomass of any kind. You need to harvest-and-bury wood (as biochar, preferably) pretty regularly if t…

Only tangentially related, but here[0] is a video of the great reforestation program that South Korea undertook after the Korean War. They effectively transformed vast arid landscapes into healthy forests. Shows the power of a nation/people coming together with careful planning, forethought, unity, and grit can literally shape the earth.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3KkN8hvUCI

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