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Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

siberiantimes.com

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Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#161

Post by xapata »

shostack wrote: post #53
bithive123 wrote: post #49

Here is a good video about the arctic methane emergency: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F9ed5E54s4 Some summary points: - Total amount of methane in the current atmosphere: ~5 gigatons - Amount of carbon preserved as methane in the arctic shelf: estimated at 100s-1000s of gigatons - Only 1% release would double the atmospheric burden of methane - Not much effort is needed to destabilize this 1% - The volume current…

In layman's terms, how much are we screwed without hope of a solution, and what is the rough timeframe before the evening news starts looking like "The Day After Tomorrow?"

Our grandchildren are in for tough times. Unless a political miracle occurs. Even then, it might be too late.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#162

Post by knz »

gnaritas wrote: post #64
rubber_duck wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why focus on "fixing" climate ? Why not just assume it's going to become unstable in close future and start building with that assumption ? Large scale isolated citiy domes. Nutrient synthesis that doesn't rely on climate/agriculture. Environment independent energy generation like micro nuclear reactors. Large scale air filtration and temperature control. As the world becomes more interconnected and developed catastr…

If you can't mobilize man to fight climate change, you aren't going to mobilize him to prepare for it either. People are in deep denial about the problem.

I was just on a call to a Federal agency in DC today to discuss research related to green house gas emission reductions. The staff were excited but quick to point out that anything related to climate change means "substantial pressure from the White House". They were reluctant to even publicize the findings and this was for good news ("easy" to do, potentially saves industry millions) so I can imagine the reaction to bad news.

What good does convincing people do if the government won't even admit climate change is real?

The "huge" savings for our industry are minimal in the grand scheme of things. It's depressing to realize how we are past the prevention phase of climate change and rapidly passing through chances to more easily mitigate the impacts.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#163

Post by delecti »

Keyframe wrote: post #125
delecti wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naively, it seems like that would be a bit like trying to pop a helium balloon and recapture the helium. Though I'm certainly not an expert, and it's possible it'd be more akin to natural gas drilling, which we have some experience in.

If you look at the video in the article, there's a dude poking a hole with his boot in one of the smaller bubble. It looks like a possibility to capture the gas, maybe drill from top on the smaller ones and from side or bottom on the large ones... but, I'm not an expert. Also, top comment here linked to a conference where they've showed a submerged Siberian plane bubbling gas from beneath sea surface - 500 to 5000G o…

I saw that video. It makes me think that the individual bubbles aren't big enough to be cost effective to harvest.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#164

Post by vacri »

gech wrote: post #114
flavor8 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better save it for anti aging supplements first. Easier to build climate resistant infrastructure here than on Mars.

But as a member of the .01% I'd rather only build new infrastructure where I can guarantee only myself and select others will be able to utilize it. I wouldn't want to waste my money on something that might be ended up being used by the public.

The only people going to Mars for the foreseeable future will be those with explicitly useful skills that can only be done in person. The 0.01% are going to be dead weight up there unless they have such a skill. And given it's a one-way ticket... how much social pull will the 0.01% have over the people with actual skills.

You may be a multibillionaire on earth, but being able to sell widgets to the masses isn't a skill that's going to be needed (or appreciated) on Mars for quite a while. Cut off from your wealth, you're just another mouth to feed.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#165

Post by vacri »

fjabre wrote: post #7
LyndsySimon wrote: post #3

Well... I guess let's hope the "Clathrate gun hypothesis" is incorrect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_gun_hypothesis

If we can't figure out an engineering solution to this problem then it's game over. It always amazes me how much people and governments focus on prevention when it comes to climate change, knowing full well it's far too late to change anything by reducing carbon emissions. If we can't sequester these 'surplus' gases from the atmosphere then I guess you could say we don't have a chance in hell, pun intended, of surviv…

> we don't have a chance in hell, pun intended, of surviving as a species if runaway warming becomes a reality.

We'll survive as a species, just not as a civilisation.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#166

Post by mattmanser »

whyenot wrote: post #139
M_Grey wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you look at the many different potential sources of, "Fucked... goodbye..." the trend is very clear. We're juggling apocalypses and just waiting to find one that will stick. Will it be ocean acidification first? Ocean levels rising? Catastrophic weather patterns? Famine? Drought? War touched off by rapid changed? Mass extinctions? They're all in play, each with the potential to end us.

Is this why we have not yet found signs of intelligent life in the universe? Every time a civilization is advanced enough to really screw up (their) planet, inevitably, they do? Fermi Paradox redux.

It's not a particularly good candidate I would think. For example we know what's happening and could theoretically have stopped it but didn't/don't have the will.

The Fermi paradox requires it to be extremely unlikely to survive, but you could imagine scenarios on other worlds where the right kind of political situation was around to stop it.

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#168

Post by anon1253 »

philipkglass wrote: post #146
bufbupa wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the optimistic assumptions in robotics that may enable accelerated silicate weathering? Or could you point me to some readings on the matter?

A search on Google Scholar for "accelerated silicate weathering" will be more informative than my comment. But here's the shortish version... Naturally occurring silicates of magnesium, calcium, sodium, and potassium are thermodynamically prone to weather to carbonates in ambient conditions, when water absorbs CO2 and passes over rocks. In the case of magnesium and calcium in particular, the weathering leads to stabl…

It's not the only option either. Combine that solution on a massive scale with re-forestation and (even though eventually it's CO2 neutral) it might actually make a dent. My go-to model was always:

- Plant heliostat molten salt reactors in desert coastal areas [1]

- Use generated heat to desalinate water

- Use desalinated water to provide irrigation

- Plant (potentially GMO'ed) bootstrapping organisms to create a soil (greening)

- Plant trees

- Rinse repeat.

However, your idea makes more sense if the only goal is CO2 scrubbing. But adding the heliostat molten salt reactors in a desert might be quite feasible, they generate tons of heat, which can be translated into energy or simply mechanical force (water pressure)…and there is no shortage of silicates in the desert.

[1] http://www.solarreserve.com/en/technology/molten-salt-energy...

Re: Thousands of underground gas bubbles poised to 'explode' in Arctic

#170

Post by philipkglass »

anon1253 wrote: post #168
philipkglass wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A search on Google Scholar for "accelerated silicate weathering" will be more informative than my comment. But here's the shortish version... Naturally occurring silicates of magnesium, calcium, sodium, and potassium are thermodynamically prone to weather to carbonates in ambient conditions, when water absorbs CO2 and passes over rocks. In the case of magnesium and calcium in particular, the weathering leads to stabl…

It's not the only option either. Combine that solution on a massive scale with re-forestation and (even though eventually it's CO2 neutral) it might actually make a dent. My go-to model was always: - Plant heliostat molten salt reactors in desert coastal areas [1] - Use generated heat to desalinate water - Use desalinated water to provide irrigation - Plant (potentially GMO'ed) bootstrapping organisms to create a soi…

Yes, re-forestation or afforestation is another scheme worth considering. It can't scale up to the extent of accelerated silicate weathering but it could reach a scale of gigatons of CO2 per year. And it could produce food, wood products, and desirable living space for humans where once there were deserts with little biomass of any kind. You need to harvest-and-bury wood (as biochar, preferably) pretty regularly if the primary goal is CO2 sequestration; otherwise the steady state is approximately equal to current mature forested areas (which store plenty of carbon in soils but aren't great at continuing to remove more from the air).

Accelerated silicate weathering and "greening the deserts" are concepts that work well together, too. Mature fertile soil contains weathered minerals and organic matter. Crushing basalt can speed up the weathering part of producing soil, and provide micronutrients for plants plus a couple of important macros (phosphorus and potassium).

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