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Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

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Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#141

Post by cercatrova »

reader5000 wrote: post #139
cercatrova wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't that how you achieve systematic equality? For example, say there are two races X and Y. X is the overachiever (doesn't even have to be a majority, there could be a 50/50 population), while Y is the underachiever, for whatever historical reasons these two groups faced. So, to get Y on the same level as X and restore a meritocracy, you must admit more of Y, even if X does better in some cases. Meritocracy onl…

How does "disparities of the past" account for modern-day disparities between e.g. Latinos and Indians? Both relatively recent to the US in large numbers; Indians seem much more represented in tech than Latinos. The proposition that all modern day population disparities are explained by historical "evil white people" seems tenuous at best. Kicking deserving top 30% people out of middle class life tracks because you i…

Yes, it is not 'just' from a Kantian perspective, where the suffering of one is always bad, but this is just from a utilitarian perspective, that the ends justify the means. Indeed, that percentage of people are kicked out for a proportional percent who are accepted, but after some time, there is proportional equality. Some must suffer in the short term for the benefit of many in the long term.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#142

Post by nether »

This is unfair. It is also unfair that blacks receive harsher punishments, starting in preschool, and that this prejudice follows them their entire lives. Can you imagine that? Being told by society that you are bad and predisposed to being a criminal, probably every fucking day? In small and large ways. Learned helplessness is real. I may not see the injustice vividly, because I am not black nor do I have any close black friends (I have a college bud that I hardly talk to, that's it). But it's everywhere. Google knows the inequity exists and is taking a step to address it.

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2014/03/21/292456211/...

https://newsone.com/1859475/black-people-receive-60-longer-s...

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#143

Post by acchow »

67726e wrote: post #124
acchow wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very few engineers in Silicon Valley interact with black engineers. That's a problem. You can't have positive experiences to remove your bias if you have zero experiences.

> You can't have positive experiences to remove your bias if you have zero experiences. Who is to say they have any? You're implying they're somehow racist because they haven't met a black engineer? Just because of their skin color you're gonna judge 'em? Well sounds like you're the racist.

The data is telling us that we are racist - that's why we need affirmative action. I don't really understand what you're trying to say.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#144

Post by jza00425 »

misterbowfinger wrote: post #52

I want to comment on the anti Affirmative Action arguments here. I went to a really prestigious high school in New York City. For the summer of my junior year, our AP Computer Science teacher hooked up a few of us with internships at the finance firms, specifically in tech (Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, etc.). Now, sure, I did really well and studied really hard to get into my high school. However, I did practically…

If you were the one who gets screwed by AA, you would have told another story. This is what liberals do. Already have your piece of pie and play the moral high ground. How about you giving your spot to a black kid?

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#145

Post by jza00425 »

burkaman wrote: post #116
downandout wrote: post #113

Programs like this promote the very discrimination that they are intended to counteract. People of all other races will see this and argue - correctly - that black students at Howard now have an advantage over them at one of the premier employers in the tech industry. This is wonderful for Howard students, and probably for black CS students looking for employment at Google in general, but not so great for everyone el…

The point of affirmative action is that it's impossible to remove race from the hiring equation, because race affects your applicants right up to the point they send in an application. If you say "I'm colorblind", you're also pretending that everyone else in the world is colorblind, and race had no impact on your applicants' resumes. Race is a society-wide issue, and it's not possible to solve without recognizing and…

Today companies say that they only hire diverse people. Who is getting discriminated? Pls tell me

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#146

Post by bante »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #128
tdb7893 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it is if your numbers for race as a whole don't match the underlying distribution you probably have a selection bias in there. I'm not sure affirmative action is the right move but I don't know how you can deny a selection bias against certain groups (racial or otherwise) and I think that we need some way to try to correct for it

The Asian:Black ratio at Stuyvesant is 2743:21. Say you bring in all the black kids from the lower-tier Bronx High School of Science (72), Staten Island Technical (13), Brooklyn Technical (390), Queens High School for the Sciences (25), High School for Mathematics, Science, and Engineering at City College (41). Now you've got 562 black kids at Stuyvesant. Still too low. Bring in the rest of the non-science-oriented s…

Not entirely sure what your point is. The best solution is of course to provide African American communities with good schools from the beginning. Like many other ethnic groups Asian Americans have been free to implement their own communities, largely based on family ties, because they weren't brought to the US in chains.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#147

Post by srssays »

tomlock wrote: post #134
srssays wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely fine to give extra advantages to people with low incomes. That's economic progressivism. It's wrong to give extra advantages based on genetics, essentially saying that some people "genetically poor" or "genetically rich", which is what Affirmative Action does.

That's exactly why affirmative action exists: It's wrong to give extra advantages based on genetics. Therefore, giving an extra advantage to someone who is not given those other extra advantages, evens the score.

Affirmative action will prefer a middle-income black person to a low-income white person. It 'evens the score' for some poor people, but not for others.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#148

Post by tdb7893 »

whack wrote: post #129
tdb7893 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it is if your numbers for race as a whole don't match the underlying distribution you probably have a selection bias in there. I'm not sure affirmative action is the right move but I don't know how you can deny a selection bias against certain groups (racial or otherwise) and I think that we need some way to try to correct for it

> "if your numbers for race as a whole don't match the underlying distribution you probably have a selection bias in there" That's an extremely strong statement to make. The proportion of Asians in professional soccer is substantially lower than the population distribution. Are you claiming that the main reason for this is selection discrimination?

No, that wasn't my intended claim. I'm not saying that the problem is just racial discrimination I'm saying that often how people are selected for colleges and jobs biases towards certain groups. Colleges want volunteering, lots of AP tests, and a high ACT for example and while anyone can do well at those some people, often through little fault of their own, have a much harder or easier time getting those things. If you select on those you are selecting not only for intelligence (which makes sense) but also how affluent their parents were and how much their community valued education (neither of which they would have control over). I'm not saying that everyone is racist, just that ignoring all the implicit biases seems illogical to me.

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#149

Post by tomlock »

srssays wrote: post #147
tomlock wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly why affirmative action exists: It's wrong to give extra advantages based on genetics. Therefore, giving an extra advantage to someone who is not given those other extra advantages, evens the score.

Affirmative action will prefer a middle-income black person to a low-income white person. It 'evens the score' for some poor people, but not for others.

There are plenty of systems that benefit some areas of society and not others. It sounds from your comment that you're all for an even distribution of rewards across society. Is that a fair characterization? Why is this case particularly egregious to you compared to other inequalities?

Re: Howard University opens a new campus at the Googleplex

#150

Post by uncletaco »

komali2 wrote: post #131
uncletaco wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is nitpicky but not so trivial. As I understand it, once upon a time you would have German Americans and Italian Americans as distinctive subgroups in the United States with their own unique cultures. But Negroes couldn't really say they were Nigerian-American or Angolan-American, largely because most colored people did not know exactly where in Africa they came from. In a historical context it makes sense that a…

Hm, good point regarding Asian American. Using "yellow" seems ridiculous but is value-wise the same as saying "black." And I can't just claim "just get rid of it all and call'm people!" because there are very useful reasons to be able to define general race (for example, when reporting a crime, you give gender, race, hair, clothing, approximate height). Even that though will become trickier as the genetic pool equali…

I've been told that FOB is offensive and is rarely used in a positive, or even neutral, manner. I mean it hasn't become taboo like nigger has but I've been told its not a polite thing to call someone.

But my larger point is African American "works". Its not offensive, speaks to a unique identity the same way Italian/Jewish/German American does, and for the most post is accepted by the black American community.

Also the genetic pool won't equalize anytime soon. Admixture leading to a near homogenous population of humans outside of small sparsely populated areas is millenia away.

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