Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 149 posts

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#131

Post by jimmyk »

pkd wrote: post #107
jacquesm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that really rams this home for me is pictures of Teheran before the revolution: http://www.vintag.es/2014/09/pictures-of-tehran-iran-ca-1960... The problem with all this is if it achieves escape velocity then it can take a long long time to undo the damage. We're almost four decades into Iran being an Islamic state and I wonder how that would have all ended if there had not been so much meddling in Iran and…

Indeed. Alse Afghanistan before Taliban[1] Very appropriate that the US had a huge hand to play in dislodging the normalcy of life in both of these places. [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-340480...

I'm curious why you refer to that as "normalcy". Was that kind of lifestyle really "normal" for the Arab world? Did people outside of major cities live like that? Were the major cities like that for a long period of time? From what I've seen, those Western-looking cities are the anomaly, resulting from either European colonization or from Western-looking rulers seeking to modernize, against the wishes of the general population.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#132

Post by jimmyk »

jacquesm wrote: post #130
jimmyk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a problem, but 'you break it, you own it' is a good rule. A good rule for who, exactly?

The world. Just like 'polluter pays'.

It's good for everyone in the world? Or it's good for the average person in the world?

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#133

Post by jacquesm »

jimmyk wrote: post #131
pkd wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. Alse Afghanistan before Taliban[1] Very appropriate that the US had a huge hand to play in dislodging the normalcy of life in both of these places. [1] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-340480...

I'm curious why you refer to that as "normalcy". Was that kind of lifestyle really "normal" for the Arab world? Did people outside of major cities live like that? Were the major cities like that for a long period of time? From what I've seen, those Western-looking cities are the anomaly, resulting from either European colonization or from Western-looking rulers seeking to modernize, against the wishes of the general…

We do not have the monopoly on highrises and modern cities.

Here is Ethiopia for instance:

http://addisairport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/addisabab...

Highrises are simply a function of the price of ground in cities going up dictating more use per square unit of area.

And FWIW the roots of most of our civilizations lie in the Arab world, at some point in time those regions were the moderns and our regions were backwards.

To directly answer your question: Major cities like that have existed all over the globe for many centuries, the 'modern' look as you call it was most likely inspired by looking abroad but that has never stopped anybody from imitation.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#134

Post by jacquesm »

jimmyk wrote: post #132
jacquesm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world. Just like 'polluter pays'.

It's good for everyone in the world? Or it's good for the average person in the world?

We all share that world don't we? So everyone. Even the richest people still breathe the air.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#135

Post by jimmyk »

jacquesm wrote: post #134
jimmyk wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good for everyone in the world? Or it's good for the average person in the world?

We all share that world don't we? So everyone. Even the richest people still breathe the air.

I'm not talking about pollution, I'm talking about the rule "you break it you own it" applied to geopolitics.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#136

Post by jimmyk »

jacquesm wrote: post #133
jimmyk wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why you refer to that as "normalcy". Was that kind of lifestyle really "normal" for the Arab world? Did people outside of major cities live like that? Were the major cities like that for a long period of time? From what I've seen, those Western-looking cities are the anomaly, resulting from either European colonization or from Western-looking rulers seeking to modernize, against the wishes of the general…

We do not have the monopoly on highrises and modern cities. Here is Ethiopia for instance: http://addisairport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/addisabab... Highrises are simply a function of the price of ground in cities going up dictating more use per square unit of area. And FWIW the roots of most of our civilizations lie in the Arab world, at some point in time those regions were the moderns and our regions were ba…

I'm not sure why you think I'm talking about the way the skyline looks. I'm talking about the acceptance of modern Western values. Do you really think that has been the normal state of the middle east, and Islamic fundamentalism is the anomaly?

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#137

Post by vram22 »

arethuza wrote: post #117
s_kilk wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legendary early settlers of Ireland, the Nemedians (who would have later settled Scotland) came from Scythia: "Nemed, ... was the son of Agnoman of Scythia..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemed

Interesting that they talk about their predecessors completely dying out. There was a fascinating Time Team special where they mentioned that Britain has had seven completely separate waves of inhabitants - with the predecessors apparently all dying out. Probably a coincidence though as the timescales won't match up but fascinating to even consider that there was some historical truth behind those old myths.

Sounds similar to the stories of the deluge in many cultures, that supposedly wiped out all or most earlier life, once or periodically. Bible's Noah's ark, Hinduism's pralaya (IIRC, primeval flood), many others ...

If there really was such a thing, it might explain a lot of these stories.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#138

Post by jacquesm »

jimmyk wrote: post #136
jacquesm wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do not have the monopoly on highrises and modern cities. Here is Ethiopia for instance: http://addisairport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/addisabab... Highrises are simply a function of the price of ground in cities going up dictating more use per square unit of area. And FWIW the roots of most of our civilizations lie in the Arab world, at some point in time those regions were the moderns and our regions were ba…

I'm not sure why you think I'm talking about the way the skyline looks. I'm talking about the acceptance of modern Western values. Do you really think that has been the normal state of the middle east, and Islamic fundamentalism is the anomaly?

Define 'Western values'.

Turkey was well underway to becoming a very modern state, Iran ditto. All this long before we began propping up the Shah and destabilizing the region around Turkey. The meddling began roughly around the time oil became important and really took off after World War II, in part accelerated because of the cold war.

Yes, Islamic fundamentalism is the anomaly, and it would not nearly be as powerful as it is without the CIA and the Saudi's funding and arming their initial round.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#139

Post by jacquesm »

jimmyk wrote: post #135
jacquesm wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all share that world don't we? So everyone. Even the richest people still breathe the air.

I'm not talking about pollution, I'm talking about the rule "you break it you own it" applied to geopolitics.

Same principle, really. In geopolitics if you either go to war or you decide to do some empire building if you want things to remain stable after you turn your back you end up being responsible for the aftermath. And if things go pear shaped and you turn your back they likely will come to haunt you in one way or another. These are not laws, merely extracts from observable reality, from Roman times right up to the present.

Sure it could end different but for some reason it never does.

Re: Ancient Romans depicted Huns as barbarians – their bones tell a different story

#140

Post by vacri »

namenotrequired wrote: post #12
vacri wrote: post #4

So, they weren't barbarians because some of them farmed? Seems to be a rather low bar.

My interpretation of what the article says is they weren't all barbarians because some of them seem to have coexisted with the locals peacefully.

A 'barbarian' doesn't have to be a violent invader. It's just an 'uncouth and uncivilised' person.
Post reply on HN