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Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

wikileaks.org

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Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#61

Post by willstrafach »

rfrank wrote: post #59
willstrafach wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to the first "Vault 7" release, this is guidance related to spy tools. No mass surveillance or anything which appears to be unjust. These all require close-access exploitation, they are not remote, in fact most of the guidance specifically relates to these being designed for devices which are to be gifted to the targets.

Yeah, that cache of zero days and all those DLLs aren't for mass surveillance. Ok. That's super duper believable.

I do not understand your response. You have not refuted my comment at all.

By design, a zero day cannot be reasonably used for mass surveillance. Every endpoint targeted increases the chance of discovery. This is how many would probably prefer to see a spy agency be operating; Focus on their specific targets instead of dragnet surveillance.

As for this specific release, it requires physical access (and a very outdated OS).

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#62

Post by mimi89999 »

willstrafach wrote: post #58
rfrank wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before leaks, "Thinking the government is monitoring everyone online and using their mobile devices to spy on them is insane, you conspiracy theorist." After leaks, "This is barely news, everyone knew this already." Every. Single. Time.

Similar to the first "Vault 7" release, this is guidance related to spy tools. No mass surveillance or anything which appears to be unjust. These all require close-access exploitation, they are not remote, in fact most of the guidance specifically relates to these being designed for devices which are to be gifted to the targets.

Infection of device on a supply chain isn't? Many people that aren't suspected of anything could end up with a backdoored device.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#63

Post by rfrank »

willstrafach wrote: post #61
rfrank wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that cache of zero days and all those DLLs aren't for mass surveillance. Ok. That's super duper believable.

I do not understand your response. You have not refuted my comment at all. By design, a zero day cannot be reasonably used for mass surveillance. Every endpoint targeted increases the chance of discovery. This is how many would probably prefer to see a spy agency be operating; Focus on their specific targets instead of dragnet surveillance. As for this specific release, it requires physical access (and a very outdate…

Why should I believe the CIA isn't using its "targeted" tools on say, American ISPs or carriers, giving them access to a dragnet level of data through a single "targeted" attack? The CIA is not staffed by reasonable people, and I have 0 reason to trust they operate in good faith or with the best interest of anyone but their own organization in mind. Which they like to demonstrate by being consistently Caught In the Act influencing foreign elections, trafficking drugs, etc. Any tool they have will be abused.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#64

Post by willstrafach »

mimi89999 wrote: post #62
willstrafach wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to the first "Vault 7" release, this is guidance related to spy tools. No mass surveillance or anything which appears to be unjust. These all require close-access exploitation, they are not remote, in fact most of the guidance specifically relates to these being designed for devices which are to be gifted to the targets.

Infection of device on a supply chain isn't? Many people that aren't suspected of anything could end up with a backdoored device.

That is a very fair point, but I think WikiLeaks actually misunderstood that. I assume you are referencing this:

> Also included in this release is the manual for the CIA's "NightSkies 1.2" a "beacon/loader/implant tool" for the Apple iPhone. Noteworthy is that NightSkies had reached 1.2 by 2008, and is expressly designed to be physically installed onto factory fresh iPhones. i.e the CIA has been infecting the iPhone supply chain of its targets since at least 2008.

It seems that WikiLeaks has misunderstood the meaning of "factory fresh" in the manual. This simply means it is a new device. If you look at all the source documents, it appears that NightSkies was built under the user requirement that a CIA agent is in a position to gift a device to their target, pre-infected. Regardless of how one might feel about that practice, I think it is a big difference with regards to the "supply chain" phrasing because they mistakenly indicate that the infection would literally occur at the factory, and that is definitely not indicated in any of the documents.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#65

Post by willstrafach »

rfrank wrote: post #63
willstrafach wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand your response. You have not refuted my comment at all. By design, a zero day cannot be reasonably used for mass surveillance. Every endpoint targeted increases the chance of discovery. This is how many would probably prefer to see a spy agency be operating; Focus on their specific targets instead of dragnet surveillance. As for this specific release, it requires physical access (and a very outdate…

Why should I believe the CIA isn't using its "targeted" tools on say, American ISPs or carriers, giving them access to a dragnet level of data through a single "targeted" attack? The CIA is not staffed by reasonable people, and I have 0 reason to trust they operate in good faith or with the best interest of anyone but their own organization in mind. Which they like to demonstrate by being consistently Caught In the A…

I definitely am not trying to make you believe anything, nor am I defending any past actions of the CIA (I don't know enough about all that to have an opinion). My comment is only based on my own review of all documents released so far in Vault 7. All indications show that these tools are made for use on specific targets, applied on devices by a human operator or asset.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#66

Post by rfrank »

willstrafach wrote: post #65
rfrank wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I believe the CIA isn't using its "targeted" tools on say, American ISPs or carriers, giving them access to a dragnet level of data through a single "targeted" attack? The CIA is not staffed by reasonable people, and I have 0 reason to trust they operate in good faith or with the best interest of anyone but their own organization in mind. Which they like to demonstrate by being consistently Caught In the A…

I definitely am not trying to make you believe anything, nor am I defending any past actions of the CIA (I don't know enough about all that to have an opinion). My comment is only based on my own review of all documents released so far in Vault 7. All indications show that these tools are made for use on specific targets, applied on devices by a human operator or asset.

It's very clear we have different ideological opinions on the actions of the CIA. The actions of US intelligence agencies over the last decade (at least) is absolutely disgusting.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#67

Post by mnm1 »

jaredhansen wrote: post #43
rfrank wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before leaks, "Thinking the government is monitoring everyone online and using their mobile devices to spy on them is insane, you conspiracy theorist." After leaks, "This is barely news, everyone knew this already." Every. Single. Time.

Yes, but that's not as crazy as it sounds. I think many folks draw an (implicit, often subconscious) distinction between invasions of privacy that they care about, vs those they don't, and the former ties closely to the presence of a human mind on the other end of the wire. For most people it seems, the whole concept is linked much more closely to the fear of shame (e.g., your slightly bizarre kink will be outed to f…

It doesn't matter if there is someone actually looking at the information or not. The violation comes in collection. If they collect, I will self-censor. Free speech cannot exist without privacy because speaking to myself is not actually speaking and speaking to anyone else freely becomes impossible. But you're right about one thing: most people are indeed too stupid to realize why they should care. The government doesn't care about people who are furry ... until furries do something that the government doesn't like. Then they'll care. Then they'll care a lot. Too bad it'll be too late by then to do anything but watch the furries get executed.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#68

Post by willstrafach »

rfrank wrote: post #66
willstrafach wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely am not trying to make you believe anything, nor am I defending any past actions of the CIA (I don't know enough about all that to have an opinion). My comment is only based on my own review of all documents released so far in Vault 7. All indications show that these tools are made for use on specific targets, applied on devices by a human operator or asset.

It's very clear we have different ideological opinions on the actions of the CIA. The actions of US intelligence agencies over the last decade (at least) is absolutely disgusting.

That may be the case. I was only replying to "that cache of zero days and all those DLLs aren't for mass surveillance" from your comment, again, due to the fact that zero days cannot be reasonably used for mass surveillance as it would drastically shorten their lifetime.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#69

Post by rfrank »

rfrank wrote: post #66
willstrafach wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely am not trying to make you believe anything, nor am I defending any past actions of the CIA (I don't know enough about all that to have an opinion). My comment is only based on my own review of all documents released so far in Vault 7. All indications show that these tools are made for use on specific targets, applied on devices by a human operator or asset.

It's very clear we have different ideological opinions on the actions of the CIA. The actions of US intelligence agencies over the last decade (at least) is absolutely disgusting.

Replying here because I can't on your post.

If the CIA is able to use those zero days on systems which provide them access to larger sets of information, then what you're saying is objectively wrong.

https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/1203207. Like I said, differently ideology.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#70

Post by ominous »

sigmar wrote: post #9
sanityUnbounded wrote: post #3

After the initial Vault 7 release, and even after Snowden in 2013, this is barely news. Our devices are not secure. Apple portrayed itself as a guardian angel for keeping the FBI of our devices for the past two years, while conveniently forgetting to mention that it has been installing iPhone backdoors for the CIA since 2008. edit: I misread the release, it is possible that they are installed after the fact, and appl…

>it has been installing iPhone backdoors for the CIA since 2008. [Citation needed] Also a bit interesting that this account was created the same minute that this comment was posted.

And this one was aged for a while before showing up. What is your point?
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