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Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

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Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#281

Post by acchow »

s0rce wrote: post #188
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Especially for information technology, I don't understand the rationale why it has to be concentrated at certain places. As long as there is a good net connection, it could be anywhere in the world. Let's concentrate on the US for a moment. Why can't a successful startup not be in Dallas, Amarillo, Miami or Des Moines? Because the real commodity being sold with the apartments and offices isn't net access or even lan…

CEOs are wealthy enough to live in the places and apparently desire to. This creates jobs in those cities and people will pay to live in them. Some people end up working remotely and live in cheaper places but not everyone has this option.

I'm pretty sure you have this backwards. The company doesn't locate itself where the CEO wants to be. The company is just located somewhere.... and the CEO will usually move to wherever that is upon hiring, unless they already live there.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#282

Post by diogenescynic »

verulito wrote: post #190
diogenescynic wrote: post #148

I work for a tech company in San Francisco and would gladly relocate to a cheaper city if the company allowed us to work remotely or had other satellite offices. Unfortunately, the satellite offices we do have seem to be dedicated towards specific departments, which doesn't help me.

Why not get a new job then? My neighbors will murder me for saying this but Austin is wonderful. Move here!!

I work in fintech and not in an engineering role, so the jobs that are available are mostly located in other high cost of living areas. I would definitely consider Austin if given the option to move there. The income taxes and housing costs make me salivate.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#283

Post by brilliantcode »

mattm wrote: post #228
trapperkeeper79 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Toronto. We have it worse. We are actually thinking of moving to Vancouver and renting :-p The rents in both places seem the same, except Toronto has shitty traffic, very limited tech opportunities, bad weather, and bugs. I looked around at jobs in Vancouver and it seemed a bit surprising how many tech employers there were. Can you shed light on why you are fed up with V? Where else are you considering?

It's more disheartening when you think that just a few hours away in Seattle a developer could be making 50-100% more salary.

It's around $126,000 USD /year in Seattle. [1]

They didn't bother listing Vancouver because the salary here is so painfully low with entry level software engineering positions regularly listing $40,000 CAD /year or $30,000 USD /year, which is what a Starbucks barista in Seattle clears.

As your experience goes up, so should your salary right? Not in Vancouver. It's around a couple hundred dollars per month in after-tax pay bump provided you've slaved at a company for 5 years minimum.

Pretty fucking hard to build a competitive tech company in Vancouver, when people are unmotivated due to depressed wage, high cost of living with no upward mobility. Almost everybody I talk to, housing is a big issue. Everyone is working, commuting on congested public transit, house poor but the image of living in Monaco, coupled with good ol' Canadian Ohwellism, people really don't give a shit about career mobility as long as they have a regular job that will let them sustain a roof over their heads.

There is a large brain drain happening here, in 15 years, this city is going to be a very different place. I don't know what the impact of losing long time middle class residents who comprise of the economy.

You will be poor but working in Vancouver, and that alone serves as a novelty for newcomers. There's really nothing special in Vancouver, to justify a 100%~300% pay cut (factoring in exchange rate and low Vancouver salary).

Vancouver might be multicultural but it's also a ethnically silo'd and very tough to meet people in general as they are very cliquey and stick with their own skin color.

Lot of broken dreams and disappointed Canadians/Americans from other provinces/states who tell me these things, which is why I'm writing this long comment to warn those who have a romantic attachment to Vancouver.

Fuck Vancouver.

[1] : http://wonderfulengineering.com/much-software-engineers-arou...

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#284

Post by jlewis7272 »

startupdiscuss wrote: post #38
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Especially for information technology, I don't understand the rationale why it has to be concentrated at certain places. As long as there is a good net connection, it could be anywhere in the world. Let's concentrate on the US for a moment. Why can't a successful startup not be in Dallas, Amarillo, Miami or Des Moines? Because the real commodity being sold with the apartments and offices isn't net access or even lan…

That's a very interesting and original way of looking at it. It would also explain clustering in other areas (finance in NYC, Oil and gas in Houston etc). Do you have any links or references exploring that idea in greater detail?

A good resource that is still in use today by many urban planners is a book called "The Death and Life of Great American Cities" by Jane Jacobs. She explores among other things the growth, decline and renewal of urban centers. Even though this was written in the 60's most of her ideas are still considered when city urban planners make decisions.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#285

Post by amyjess »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #269
amyjess wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a young-ish person ( technically a Millennial, born in 1984) who also grew up in the suburbs, you literally couldn't pay me enough to leave the suburbs. I don't care if you're offering me seven figures; I won't live in the city. I detest noise, grime, and crowds. I like having lots and lots of space all to myself. I worked in the city once; I got sick to death of hobos on the streets shouting at me and demanding I…

Honestly it's probably that half decade or so making the switch. Different strokes for different folks for sure; but Im fairly sure the cities you describe don't exist in the US anymore, at least on the east coast. You're more likely to die in a car accident than be killed by a stranger in nyc (and the heart disease brought on by the sedentary car shaped life is a far bigger risk factor). Live fast, die young, make b…

While this study was conducted with Canadians in mind, everything about it resonates with that I've seen from American Millennials as well: https://www.wgsn.com/blogs/canadian-millennials-meet-the-6-k...

"Bros & Brittanys" is, at 32%, by far and above the largest group and described as "enthusiastic consumers".

I'd imagine many other "Lone Wolves" (a group I consider myself part of) enjoy the peace and quiet of a suburban environment; I don't like being surrounded by people. I enjoy living an atomized life where most of my social interaction is online.

I've actually met some New Traditionalists, too... actually, my legally-blind friend I mentioned before is one of the only people from college I know who's an outspoken political conservative, and his wife is even more conservative than he is. Every Sunday, his wife drives him to church in his rural hometown, and they spend the day with his family. Since he got married, he's only become more and more of an extreme religious conservative.

There is also some more evidence showing that younger Millennials are more conservative than a lot of people think: https://www.ketchum.com/pt-br/news/break-ranks-among-millenn...

And to be honest, I don't think the urban hipster Millennials are any different from Gen-Xers who identified as slackers and Baby Boomers who joined the hippie movement. As they get older, the majority of them are going to walk away from their countercultures and return to more traditional lives.

If you believe in Strauss-Howe generational theory, then once the current Crisis runs its course, Millennials are going to have the same role in the new status quo that the GI Generation had in the 1950s.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#286

Post by humanrebar »

derefr wrote: post #273
humanrebar wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you wanted culture, you'd have to get in your car and drive at least an hour. Everywhere has culture. You just didn't like the one you were in. In tiny towns, the culture looks more like running around in the woods, country music, 4-H club, and church potlucks. That's a culture, even if you don't like it. And, besides, in the internet age there are plenty of farmers' daughters that get really into oil painting o…

People tend to use "culture" to refer, more often than not, to the local availability of global culture-production top-dogs. For example, New York has "fashion culture", because it's a place where you can expect to run into people who aren't just into fashion, but who lead and dictate the world's fashion. In other words, people want access to socially-dominant individuals. It's probably some sort of backwards instinc…

That means "culture" is a dog whistle referencing some sort of elitism.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#287

Post by humanrebar »

clock_tower wrote: post #274
humanrebar wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you wanted culture, you'd have to get in your car and drive at least an hour. Everywhere has culture. You just didn't like the one you were in. In tiny towns, the culture looks more like running around in the woods, country music, 4-H club, and church potlucks. That's a culture, even if you don't like it. And, besides, in the internet age there are plenty of farmers' daughters that get really into oil painting o…

> Everywhere has culture. You just didn't like the one you were in. I remember reading a conservative/neocon author who tore into this relativizing of culture, insisting on the old definition that "culture" didn't just mean "whatever junk's growing in a petri dish", but I can't remember who it was -- Barzun, Goldman ("Spengler"), or Dalrymple. The point's valid regardless. "Culture" means "culture", not just "whateve…

Recognizing that other cultures exist and that people have different preferences isn't a partisan idea. Nor is it cultural relativism.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#288

Post by _delirium »

vonmoltke wrote: post #54
startupdiscuss wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every large city has some schools. Why is it that Austin is a tech hub (UT) but Houston is not (U of H, Rice)? One theory: it is not the school, but the kinds of jobs people get after. Austinites went to work for Dell, and Houstonians went to work for Exxon.

Houston is, for some definition of "tech". It's just more focused on petroleum and ocean engineering, which don't get a lot of play I'm these circles.

There are a ton of even pretty straight-up tech jobs in those industries, e.g. ExxonMobil's Houston office has a large machine learning group.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#289

Post by humanrebar »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #196
humanrebar wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Access to artistic communities, robust public transit, diverse food and culture, and a fluid job market makes the value add for me a no brainer. Other than the public transit, all of the above are available in any number of towns and cities in the U.S. A half a century ago maybe you had to go to NYC to hear great live music and eat Cambodian food, find specialty ingredients, or get access to off-beat books. But tha…

I've lived in NYC and Buffalo, a reasonably large city 8 hours north of NYC. The two experiences are not at all comparable, particularly with food and diversity in culture. Although a large Chinese population exists as international students in Buffalo, you can't get anywhere near the close-as-authentic-as-you-get-in-the-states Chinese food in Buffalo that is available in spades in NYC area(particularly Flushing,Quee…

Fair enough. But I just ate arugula at a Panera. Fifty years ago Italian was considered "ethnic" food in the American Midwest. It's also worth pointing out that Flushing isn't just down the street for most new Yorkers. Commutes within NYC can be well over an hour and/or two expensive can rides away.

I'm just saying the "no culture in the flyover states" meme is long overdue for an update.

Re: Rents in Megacities Can't Go Up Forever

#290

Post by acchow »

humanrebar wrote: post #123
lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there's certainly some true to that statement, I think you're being overly cynical. People congregate in cities to be near _people_ . For sure with a good internet connection I could do all my work from small town america living in a mcmansion at a quarter of my rent; instead I live in nyc. Access to artistic communities, robust public transit, diverse food and culture, and a fluid job market makes the value ad…

> Access to artistic communities, robust public transit, diverse food and culture, and a fluid job market makes the value add for me a no brainer. Other than the public transit, all of the above are available in any number of towns and cities in the U.S. A half a century ago maybe you had to go to NYC to hear great live music and eat Cambodian food, find specialty ingredients, or get access to off-beat books. But tha…

Not every Cambodian restaurant is the same. I promise you the best Cambodian restaurant in Des Moines is nowhere nearly as good as any half-decent Cambodian restaurant in New York. Same goes with Italian and Japanese and Spanish and Thai and Korean. Are you really equating the food scene in Des Moines with that of New York by the availability of cultural cuisines?
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