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Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

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Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#21

Post by aestetix »

sanityUnbounded wrote: post #3

After the initial Vault 7 release, and even after Snowden in 2013, this is barely news. Our devices are not secure. Apple portrayed itself as a guardian angel for keeping the FBI of our devices for the past two years, while conveniently forgetting to mention that it has been installing iPhone backdoors for the CIA since 2008. edit: I misread the release, it is possible that they are installed after the fact, and appl…

I partly agree with you. I think that some of this technology is intrusive, and that there isn't nearly enough transparency around what the "intelligence" agencies do.

That said, I'd like to see a lot more attention to data brokers like Axciom, Transunion, and Equifax. While having an enemy like the NSA is sharp and simple to understand, having loan applications and other things mysteriously denied is far more menacing to me. That and the fact that unlike the intelligence agencies, there is almost no data privacy protection for people around data brokers.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#22

Post by imron »

NietTim wrote: post #17
sanityUnbounded wrote: post #3

After the initial Vault 7 release, and even after Snowden in 2013, this is barely news. Our devices are not secure. Apple portrayed itself as a guardian angel for keeping the FBI of our devices for the past two years, while conveniently forgetting to mention that it has been installing iPhone backdoors for the CIA since 2008. edit: I misread the release, it is possible that they are installed after the fact, and appl…

Are you kidding me? Wikileaks is giving is proof against conspiracy nuts that we have never had before. Just because people in your bubble don't care, doesn't mean that this isn't effective. Releases like this spark discussion and give people fuel to fight the fire. Can I get a source on this? > while conveniently forgetting to mention that it has been installing iPhone backdoors for the CIA since 2008. I'm more incl…

> who clearly has a nack against Wikileaks.

Maybe not as clearly as you think.

The 'wikileaks is a threat' was part of the false narrative that the parent post says is being presented to the masses.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#23

Post by pikzen »

NietTim wrote: post #17
sanityUnbounded wrote: post #3

After the initial Vault 7 release, and even after Snowden in 2013, this is barely news. Our devices are not secure. Apple portrayed itself as a guardian angel for keeping the FBI of our devices for the past two years, while conveniently forgetting to mention that it has been installing iPhone backdoors for the CIA since 2008. edit: I misread the release, it is possible that they are installed after the fact, and appl…

Are you kidding me? Wikileaks is giving is proof against conspiracy nuts that we have never had before. Just because people in your bubble don't care, doesn't mean that this isn't effective. Releases like this spark discussion and give people fuel to fight the fire. Can I get a source on this? > while conveniently forgetting to mention that it has been installing iPhone backdoors for the CIA since 2008. I'm more incl…

I believe his post was awkwardly worded and that "Don't believe Wikileaks, they are a threat" is just a jab at how the media is portraying Assange and Wikileaks.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#24

Post by sanityUnbounded »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #16
jerf wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"barely news...." "hard to find anyone that actually cares...." What Wikileaks is changing, and what has had a real effect even here on HN let alone out in the normal world, is that we didn't quite know that the government was doing all these things. We very very very much expected that they were doing these things, but we were never faced with cold hard evidence. And a great deal of the rest of the populace sort of…

Why should I care a spy agency has spy tools? (Which is all these leaks show.) I mean, the CIA could always have broken in to my house undetected and set up tiny microphones -- why should I worry now that they use computers as part of that, but not then when it was bugs transmitting radio? The reason people don't care now is why they didn't care then : so what? Do you really believe the CIA gives a shit about what yo…

The logistics of breaking into a house undetected to set up tiny microphones suggests a lot of manpower, and to do that to each house in the United States would be near impossible without raising suspicion.

The reason to care now is because it likely wasn't happening then.

Also, whether the CIA "gives a shit" is irrelevant. It is still happening regardless, and you cannot know for certain what the CIA does and does not "give a shit" about.

If you have documents showing what this data is being used for, do the world a service and release them.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#26

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

3131s wrote: post #18
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CIA is collecting data from these devices as I am writing this. Citation needed. The CIA is almost certainly ignoring all of that data. [Ed: Since this was unclear, by "ignoring", I meant not interested in and not capturing it. As in, they're "ignoring" the information stream by not tapping it.] If anyone is collecting it, which is largely doubtful, it would be Facebook collecting microphone noise or Google col…

> breaking their charter in a massive way by domestically spying on a bunch of students sitting around in class. You are aware that the CIA has done exactly that already, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_RESISTANCE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS

Uh, that second link isn't like the first.

Foreign PSYOPs exploiting local minority (or other) groups is a standard way to undermine a government. It's a tactic at least thousands of years old.

I would say it's literally the CIAs job to keep an eye on that kind of activity.

Circling back to your first link, which is an issue, Im still not 100% convinced they acted inappropriately. You notice how it says they compiled a database of people who might cause property damage using the opinions of independent people on the ground, and not thay they put bugs in random student's dorm rooms?

That, given its relation to the appropriate tracking of foreign influence, might've been okay.

In either case, neither of your links is anything like the allegation they're massively and indiscriminately spying on random students.

So... Citation needed.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#27

Post by belorn »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #16
jerf wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"barely news...." "hard to find anyone that actually cares...." What Wikileaks is changing, and what has had a real effect even here on HN let alone out in the normal world, is that we didn't quite know that the government was doing all these things. We very very very much expected that they were doing these things, but we were never faced with cold hard evidence. And a great deal of the rest of the populace sort of…

Why should I care a spy agency has spy tools? (Which is all these leaks show.) I mean, the CIA could always have broken in to my house undetected and set up tiny microphones -- why should I worry now that they use computers as part of that, but not then when it was bugs transmitting radio? The reason people don't care now is why they didn't care then : so what? Do you really believe the CIA gives a shit about what yo…

There is this old joke that one should think like ones neighbor: its not me they want, its the neighbor.

Joke a side, so long you are not political active, don't run a company, are not a doctor, a lawyer, or a priest, vote for the right political party, have friends with any of the above, or have children or spouse that are friends with any of the above, then it is likely that they don't care what you say. Just make sure you got a high enough citizen score.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#28

Post by 1001101 »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #16
jerf wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"barely news...." "hard to find anyone that actually cares...." What Wikileaks is changing, and what has had a real effect even here on HN let alone out in the normal world, is that we didn't quite know that the government was doing all these things. We very very very much expected that they were doing these things, but we were never faced with cold hard evidence. And a great deal of the rest of the populace sort of…

Why should I care a spy agency has spy tools? (Which is all these leaks show.) I mean, the CIA could always have broken in to my house undetected and set up tiny microphones -- why should I worry now that they use computers as part of that, but not then when it was bugs transmitting radio? The reason people don't care now is why they didn't care then : so what? Do you really believe the CIA gives a shit about what yo…

> Do you really believe the CIA gives a shit about what you have to say?

As we learned from the Snowden leaks, surveillance is being conducted on a massive scale under the purview of a secret court that rubber stamps whatever comes across its desk, and not in a targeted manner as in your bug argument.

I still have a right and desire for privacy, which is not a function of whether or not the CIA, or anyone, cares what I say or do.

This level of clairvoyance is too much power for any one person or group to have, and is of what Orwell and others have rightly warned us.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#29

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

sanityUnbounded wrote: post #20
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The CIA is collecting data from these devices as I am writing this. Citation needed. The CIA is almost certainly ignoring all of that data. [Ed: Since this was unclear, by "ignoring", I meant not interested in and not capturing it. As in, they're "ignoring" the information stream by not tapping it.] If anyone is collecting it, which is largely doubtful, it would be Facebook collecting microphone noise or Google col…

> The CIA is almost certainly ignoring all of that data Citation needed. Do you suggest that the data is destroyed after it is deemed unimportant? If not, that suggests a far more terrifying scenario in which the data is collected and stored in the event that it would need to be brought up at a later date.

I'm suggesting it's not collected in the first place, no bugs exist on any if those computers or phones, etc.

That's what ignoring it means: it only exists in whatever fleeting capacity the local devices capture it, and the CIA has no interest in capturing or analyzing it.

Re: Wikileaks Vault 7 Release: Dark Matter

#30

Post by Chaebixi »

zo7 wrote: post #10
tbirrell wrote: post #4

I laugh at all these pop culture code names. Like guys... Don't do that... You look like you are desperate to stay in touch.

They actually serve their purpose pretty well. You won't arouse suspicion or hint at any details of the project if someone overhears you talking about sonic screwdrivers or dark matter. It's not like they intended these projects to be known outside the CIA/IC.

That's a good point, but I'd imagine they could do better in that regard by picking bland corporate project names (e.g. NextGen, Aurora, Cheetah, Phase 2).
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