The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess • Hacker News Board

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#311

Post by Ericson2314 » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 1:47 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #259

candiodari wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is that if you were born somewhere poor, odds are overwhelmingly that you would earn a tiny fraction of what someone born somewhere where they are provided proper education and an environment where better alternatives are available. This is one of those things that is worse in Europe than in the US. Inequality is perhaps less in absolute value, but it's more sticky. The upper class of the US has plenty…

Social mobility in the US is lower than in most OECD countries [1]. Of all OECD countries, only in Slovenia, Chile, Italy and the UK are the intergenerational correlations between the earnings of fathers and sons stronger, for example. The rest of the OECD, including most of Europe, does far better in that respect. Representation of immigrants is something I haven't looked at, and it may very well be that the US does…

Yeah, I bet parent comment was generalizing from the UK.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#312

Post by conanbatt » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 1:48 PM UTC

lovich wrote: post #246

conanbatt wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

You're comparing median salary in Berlin with the high end in the US, and you are ignoring much of the complexities that were already mentioned such as the incredibley high cost of living in San Francisco where google and facebook pay those salaries. I'm in the Boston market and median salary for devs is around 80-90k when you include all skill levels, but every single dev I know has roommates or an hour+ commute int…

Im pretty sure that even after adjustment, savings rates for software engineers in SF is much higher than in Berlin.

There are many perks to Berlin over SF, but salaries and net income are not it.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

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Post by cmdrfred » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 1:51 PM UTC

nommm-nommm wrote: post #288

cmdrfred wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine is stressful to have an illness no matter what. I have the option to fairly easily move to the UK since my wife is a citizen there. We did the math and decided we prefer our higher standard of living here (we budgeted it all out and I went as far to do some phone interviews, we would have to move into a small apartment there as opposed to a house and we would both not only make less but pay much higher taxe…

You didn't address my comments at all. Sure, you prioritizing having a big house over not worrying about having to cough up $5k in even of an illness. Or worrying about losing your health insurance. Medical expenses are covered somewhat by insurance but you're still getting a huge bill if you're significantly ill. I was damn lucky I could afford it but if I go sick a few years earlier I'd be totally and completely fu…

We both have health insurance and both of our out of pocket maximums in health savings accounts as well as one years expenses in liquid assets not to mention our retirement accounts. We also both have short and long term disability though our jobs. If both of us became ill there is a possible scenario that we have to sell the house, yes but we prefer to have the oppuntinity to own a home as opposed to renting a apartment with slightly less risk. It isn't a big home, it is extremely modest and costs less than an apartment in our area. Our mortgage is our only debt.

We got here by saving together and living in a one room apartment for 5 years. We don't have new cars or iPhones and we go out to eat about once a year (that we pay for her mother offers to take us out from time to time). I just upgraded my 30 inch CRT TV to a 50 inch 4K after a decade of loyal service. Its not for everyone but its certainly not impossible. I make about 43k a year pretax and she makes 37k for reference. Median income nationally is 55k or so and about 75k in my county so I suspect a great many people have the opportunity to do just as we have done.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#314

Post by conanbatt » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 1:52 PM UTC

probably_wrong wrote: post #215

conanbatt wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

If you end up choosing the US, and go to an at will state, keep in mind that your employer can fire you for wearing the wrong color of socks, even if they never told you which color is the right one (no, really). I think it boils down to whether you want to take care of yourself, or if you let the state do it for you. I would definitely take the 60K if it includes awesome public transport, unemployment money, afforda…

> If you end up choosing the US, and go to an at will state, keep in mind that your employer can fire you for wearing the wrong color of socks, even if they never told you which color is the right one (no, really)

I live in a country where you have to pay insurmountable amounts of money to fire employees. The salaries that us pays are about 8x. Gimme at will employment.

> I would definitely take the 60K if it includes awesome public transport, unemployment money, affordable healthcare, a month of holidays, and having free time in the evenings for hobbies.

I had plenty of free time in SF to do whatever i wanted when I worked there. Maybe i was lucky, but i did not find work-life balance to be particularly out of whack. Europe is more relaxed, but also less ambitious in terms of culture. That can be frustrating as well.

> I would definitely take the 60K if it includes awesome public transport, unemployment money, affordable healthcare, a month of holidays, and having free time in the evenings for hobbies.

You are paying for all those things, its not like they are free in europe. You can also pay for them in the US on software engineer salaries. Google has ample pto, facebook has parental rights, etc. You can always take unpaid time off, something easier to do in the US than in other countries.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#315

Post by emodendroket » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 1:53 PM UTC

derivagral wrote: post #305

emodendroket wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every single dev I know has roommates or an hour+ commute into the city They should probably look for housing near a commuter rail then

This generally won't solve the commute issue; you spend time driving, parking, on the train, walking/subway to work area. And then all of that in reverse. You still 'lose' 50+ minutes each way.

I have a much shorter commute than many of my colleague who actually live in Boston.

If nothing else it's much more pleasant, anyway.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#316

Post by Brendinooo » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 1:53 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #163

rmc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And many of them think that people in Europe have it worse. That the economy would just collapse into African-levels of poverty if there was mandatory paid holidays. This is a danger of American TV shows and movie studios remaking shows for the American audiences. They don't get to see that Europe is mostly a developed place.

It surprises me that Americans don't even get Christmas (or the “holidays”) off. Would the religious right not support that?

What do you mean when you say "Americans"? Wikipedia says that 94% of businesses offer paid time off for 12/25[0]. Even Walmart is closed on Christmas!

What is your implication, that the government should require all businesses to be closed on Christmas Day? Does that happen where you're from?

>Would the religious right not support that?

Perhaps you have a bit of a boogeyman image of the 'religious right'. Regardless, the question is moot because just about everyone celebrates Christmas in the US, religious or not. A better place to examine the question would be Easter weekend, where only 26% of businesses offer PTO for Good Friday and 6% offer it for Easter Monday. I try to follow religious and political news, and I've never heard of anyone try to make a push to make Good Friday a federal holiday. I'm sure some politically active religious folk would support it if asked though (and it can be achieved by secularizing the name, making it "spring holiday" or something like that[1]).

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_the_United_... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Friday#United_States

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#317

Post by acdha » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 1:54 PM UTC

vidarh wrote: post #218

collyw wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't Europeans pay similar levels of tax to Americans?

Depends greatly by country. In the US, the total tax wedge (which includes employer tax contributions, such as payroll taxes) is 31.7% of total labour costs[1]. In the UK it is 30.8%, while e.g. in Denmark it is 36.4%. The OECD average is 35.9% Belgium is the extreme - at 55.3% it's the highest in the OECD. Three European countries (UK, Ireland, Switzerland) come in below the US on this metric. The numbers are basica…

It's also interesting to compare the tax burden plus the costs of healthcare: since the U.S. medical system is so inefficient that tends to close the gap even further: e.g. taking those figures shows the average Dane making 54,013 and paying 36.1% (19,444) while the average American makes 50,964 and pays 25.6% (12,741). That $6,703 difference looks great until you notice that Denmark pays for almost all of their citizens healthcare cost but the average American has to kick in an extra $4-5K, steadily increasing year-over-year:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-costs-how-the-us-...

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#318

Post by emodendroket » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 1:54 PM UTC

nkrisc wrote: post #303

emodendroket wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every single dev I know has roommates or an hour+ commute into the city They should probably look for housing near a commuter rail then

That's the "has roommates" part. That housing is going to be more expensive.

I live in the South Shore near the commuter rail. It's pretty affordable for someone making $80k.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#319

Post by conanbatt » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 1:54 PM UTC

nxtrafalgar wrote: post #264

conanbatt wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

Take living costs and so forth into account also. California probably isn't as great at the figures suggest. That said, speaking as a New Zealander: don't come here. There are no jobs, and if you find one, you will be underpaid. If you're looking for the weather and standard-of-living combination offered by the southern hemisphere, consider Melbourne or Sydney instead. Very few of my graduating class at the Universit…

Wow this is true?

I just heard NZ was doing a state sponsored world-wide call for workers. Is it because people are leaving? Where are they leaving to?

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#320

Post by xienze » Thu, Mar 23, 2017, 1:55 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #152

readittwice wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should Americans bother to have a passport? Their country is so huge, probably more than you could visit in a lifetime. Deserts, mountains, cities, ... In Europe countries and the continent are smaller, Vienna for example literally has 3 other countries in commuting distance. It is quite obvious that you are more likely to need a passport here in Europe. A much fairer comparison would be to only count Europeans t…

Visiting a foreign country is regarded as an essential rite of passage in many parts of the world. Being surrounded by people who speak a different language, use a different currency and have a different culture provides a very valuable life experience. Your understanding of "normal" can shift very quickly when you get to experience being a foreigner. I can't help but think that passport ownership is one of the funda…

> Being surrounded by people who speak a different language, use a different currency and have a different culture provides a very valuable life experience.

Other than the currency part, we've got that in the US...