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The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

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Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#261

Post by 0322317_anes »

conanbatt wrote: post #207
iicc wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...doctors who can basically make a killing in the US but not in Europe. Arguably that's due to constrained Supply - http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2013/03/the_high_price.h...

This is related to one of the least favoured policy changes Milton Friedman wanted to make: remove medical licenses. There are plenty of tasks doctors are commanded with that do not require mastery level of expertise, and that enormously raises the cost of medicine. You dont need to study 10 years to read an EKG, someone could learn all the EKG patterns in a much shorter time. A funny story about this in argentina: a…

I have never heard that anesthesiologists make anywhere close to what specialized surgeons make.

Where are you getting this information from?

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#262

Post by alkonaut »

sheeshkebab wrote: post #182
alkonaut wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on which europeans you mean. The higher taxed countries like the nordics pay mad taxes. I don't mind though because I feel it's well spent (i.e. my attitude towards public spending is that it is usually pretty efficient ). That's probably a big difference to the US where the attitude seems to be that taxes are pretty much a black hole. Tax calc for me: Employer pays $8k Payroll taxes deducted: $2k My gross sa…

US way: You make $8k a month: You pay $2k in taxes (Employer pays an additional $1k in tax), so your income is 9k. You pay $500 in health and other benefits (employer pays another $500) If you spend remaining $5.5k, you'll usually pay $250-$500 In sales taxes. In other words, you have $5k remaining to spend on shit that you probably don't need.

> You pay $2k in taxes (Employer pays an additional $1k in tax), so your income is 9k.

How did the employer paying an extra k mean you make more? I think it's only relevant to talk about 2 figures: a) the expense to the employer and b) your take home (net) salary.

Everything in between there is "taxes" and who pays them and when is less important. If the employer needs $9k to hire you that's what it costs. Then the tax man takes $1k payroll, you get $8k, pay $2k income tax. That leaves you $6k after all payroll and income taxes from a starting $9k making the income+payroll taxes 33%.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#263

Post by falcolas »

conanbatt wrote: post #190
alkonaut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

A software engineer in SF is also paying somewhere around 400% more for housing, and 100% more for everything else than a software engineer in Berlin. Quite an important note when comparing salaries.

Higher costs, lower stability, and no safety net... I think that I would prefer that Berlin salary (and I'm a US resident).

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#264

Post by nxtrafalgar »

conanbatt wrote: post #190
alkonaut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

Take living costs and so forth into account also. California probably isn't as great at the figures suggest.

That said, speaking as a New Zealander: don't come here. There are no jobs, and if you find one, you will be underpaid. If you're looking for the weather and standard-of-living combination offered by the southern hemisphere, consider Melbourne or Sydney instead. Very few of my graduating class at the University of Auckland will end up remaining in the city, I suspect.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#265

Post by tweedl »

candiodari wrote: post #235
vidarh wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea is based on the fantasy that people are compensated purely for what they do, and not also for their starting point, who they are, who they know, and so on. The reality is that if you were born somewhere poor, odds are overwhelmingly that you would earn a tiny fraction of what someone born somewhere where they are provided proper education and an environment where better alternatives are available. So maybe…

> The reality is that if you were born somewhere poor, odds are overwhelmingly that you would earn a tiny fraction of what someone born somewhere where they are provided proper education and an environment where better alternatives are available. This is one of those things that is worse in Europe than in the US. Inequality is perhaps less in absolute value, but it's more sticky. The upper class of the US has plenty…

Social mobility is lower in US. Sources are easy to find, you can start at https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/america...

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#266

Post by hocuspocus »

refurb wrote: post #37
rimliu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I saw a report somewhere stating thad Danes are most happy to pay taxes—because they are happy what they gain in return. Also, there was a report recently, that happiest people are in Norway. Maybe it is not fair to call all socially responsible arrangements "welfare society"?

Or maybe they don't know any different? How many people have actually had the opportunity to live a decade or more of their adult lives in different countries? A very small minority. Canadians love their single payer healthcare. They have no problem waiting a year or more for surgery. They don't think paying a 15% VAT is a burden. They don't know any different. Americans would shit themselves if they had to deal with…

> Americans would shit themselves if they had to deal with that.

Are Americans some kind of special subspecies where the bottom 80% of earners inherently enjoys being screwed?

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#268

Post by alkonaut »

donw wrote: post #234
alkonaut wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we can have more guns with few instances of gun violence esque Switzerland if we train our populace to properly secure and disarm their guns when not being actively used. Would a law requiring guns to be safely stored (i.e. in a safe ) be acceptable? I assume the gun lobby would scream at the thought, but what would the majority think? Likewise, would a national register and limits (i.e. every serial number is boun…

Right now, provided a serial number, American police can trace a gun used in a crime to its last legal owner. It takes a number of phone calls -- first to the manufacturer, then to the gun store, then to the first owner, and down the chain -- but it generally works. And, although it's not mandated by law, gun owners do tend to keep records on private party sales. Nobody wants to be in the situation of "we found this…

> If you want to promote safe storage, the best solution would be a tax benefit for buying safe-storage equipment

Yes, a tax benefit seems like something you would probably need to add to a bill requiring safe storage, just to get it past lawmakers and special interest groups.

> Something else that I would love to see, and stealing a page from the Swiss, is universal gun education

That sounds like a good idea. Not sure if having it mandatory even for never-to-be gun owners is the best use of resources, but at least having it as a requirement for a license sounds reasonable - just like driving.

Being a Swede we have (and had) mandatory gun education. For men at least. Same thing in Switzerland. Conscription! (now everyone is again elgible for conscription but far from everyone will be required). So that problem is at least solved in countries with conscription armies. Obviously, neither Sweden nor Switzerland ever trained everyone in gun safety but there is mandatory training before ever using a gun at least, because the licenses require it. So owning a gun for hunting requires passing an exam, Military obviously includes a lot of training, and owning a gun for sports of personal protection is simply not a concept.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#269

Post by vidarh »

alkonaut wrote: post #251
vidarh wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the Nordic countries have taxes as high as the ones you outline above for average earners, though it is possible in some instances if you're earning substantially above average. For average earners, the tax levels you outline are possible in Belgium, Austria, Germany, France, Hungary or Italy, based on OECD numbers. All of which outdistance the Nordics when it comes to taxation. Again when looking at averages…

> None of the Nordic countries have taxes as high as the ones you outline above for average earners, though it is possible in some instances if you're earning substantially above average. Yes, I'm above average income for Sweden. Roughly my employer pays 1/4 payroll and 3/4 to me as gross salary. I pay 1/3 tax on gross salary and keep. 2/3. That means the net share of the employers' expense is roughly (2/3)x(3/4) whi…

> (Which is surprisingly close to the figure you had there of 42.7%)

I've cross checked the OECD numbers many times, and they are very precise. Any discrepancy tend to be year to year changes in deductions etc.

> Oh: A source of great injustice in Sweden is that renters (predominantly low income earners) don't deduct interest rate expenses of those who own property (their landlords) while those who own their property deduct a crapload of interest

This is interesting. Norway has that for a long time as well, and I believe the US allows it, but very few other countries in the world does and didn't realise Sweden also allowed it. Norway allows deductions of all debt interest, which makes it one of the most extreme examples of this, and is one of the big confounding factors when people look at tax rates without taking into account that e.g. even credit card interest paid gives a deduction towards taxable income...

In Norway at least I believe it's largely been seen as an incentive to reward home ownership, and making the average worker a home owner has been as one of the big goals of the labour movement, to the extent that any growth in proportion of population renting has come to be seen as a sign of collective failure.

Re: The Gig Economy Celebrates Working To Excess

#270

Post by alkonaut »

conanbatt wrote: post #190
alkonaut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Salaries for professionals are markedly lower, we live in much smaller houses etc. This is an age old debate, and it's very hard to compare one vast continent to another. Regional differences between US cities and European cities are at least as large or larger than the difference between the avereages of US and European salaries/living standards etc. The difference between central manhattan and rural Apalachia is…

A software engineer in a startup in berlin earns maybe a median salary of 60k euros ayear at a 40% tax rate. Thats less of what interns make in the us at a 30% tax rate. An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus. As far as I know, theres no comparison between what a soft dev makes in the us and what he makes in europe. This is from someone that lives in south america, and is…

> An experienced engineer at google or facebook make 200k with a sizable signup bonus.

I think Silicon Valley megacorps are exceptional outliers. Obviously people can make silly money at Google, but so do athletes in the largest leagues. It's just not a useful comparison between continents with millions of employees. Exclude the top 10% and bottom 10% makes for a more reasonable comparison.

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