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Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

techblog.netflix.com

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Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#241

Post by AsyncAwait »

paulddraper wrote: post #186
dkonofalski wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if I'm just looking too far into your comment, but I don't see why you're blaming Netflix (or it seems you are) or how you got to them being the bad guys for this? They're not the ones that make the content. If it was up to Netflix, they would just release their shows DRM-free on Netflix for any platform. Unfortunately, that's not how things work and they have to bow to the demands of the content distrib…

Wait, who is forcing Netflix to use DRM for Netflix-produced content?

I actually agree with you and am against DRM, but I think I've read that Netflix doesn't actually own all the rights to their content, which doesn't mean that they don't have a great amount of influence if they wanted to do it - obviously, they don't.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#242

Post by jasonkostempski »

hsivonen wrote: post #97
jasonkostempski wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be better if the platforms that wanted DRM just made their own damn desktop apps, just like they make their own iOS apps, Android apps, Roku apps, smart tv apps, etc. There's no reason for them to be embedded in a browser.

Why would you prefer letting streaming companies have full code execution on you desktop instead of having browsers mediate?

That's a good reason. Ideally sand-boxing desktop applications will be an easy thing to do in the future. Maybe the big companies involved in making this Netflix thing happen could have spent their time coming up with a cross platform standard for that. No matter what, the open internet's more important than me or you or even Morpheus. I make the trust call with desktop applications every day, I'd be ok with making the call for 1 or 2 more. I have DRM turned off in Firefox and I won't change it for Netflix or Hulu (the only 2 sites for me that don't work with it off), I limit Netflix and Hulu use to Roku.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#243

Post by nxc18 »

nkristoffersen wrote: post #228

Is there a better method for protecting content provided by Netflix? Just being realistic. DRM is a necessary evil in that video studios would never ever provide content in the clear. I am so happy to see flash go the way of the Dodo. But curious what the best alternative is for implementing DRM on the web?

Probably Silverlight, which they have already been using.

The thing is, premium content is going to be DRMd whether Firefox users like it or not. The question is, will Firefox users be able to consume it once they kill off Silverlight?

The only other viable alternative is a native app, and we all know how open and Linux-friendly those tend to be.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#244

Post by Ironchefpython »

mavrc wrote: post #230
daenney wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's terrible is Netflix could have used it's considerable influence to tell _that_ _Industry_ that we won't walk this walk anymore. Why do you assume they didn't? And if they did and the industry said no, what should they have done? Walk away, lose access to all its content, see a large part of their subscriber base move to different services that do support DRM and therefor get the content and eventually have t…

> And if they did and the industry said no, what should they have done? Distribute industry content with DRM, distribute their own content without, and see what the results are. Somebody's going to have to perform the experiment to see what the outcome will be. Since Netflix produces tons of content now, they are in an excellent position to try this.

> Distribute industry content with DRM, distribute their own content without, and see what the results are.

The industry content will show up on the Pirate Bay, and Netflix original content will show up on the Pirate Bay.

Were you expecting another outcome?

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#245

Post by BuuQu9hu »

tptacek wrote: post #223
BuuQu9hu wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're missing is that passwords don't require blobs. The ContentDecryptionModules used for DRM on the Web are blobs. For a browser to run a blob, there needs to be an interface between the browser and the blob. Flash and Silverlight blobs used a standard interface: NPAPI. Any browser implementing NPAPI could run the blobs (assuming the blob was compatible with the host OS). CDMs have no such standard browser/bl…

I don't think I'm missing it, so much as I'm not understanding what the material difference is between your unwillingness to run a blob on your machine versus your unwillingness to do any of the other things a business might require before issuing you a password. You are free not to run those blobs, and not to use Netflix's services. Where you lose me is the militant demand that Netflix not offer services to those wi…

You need to address this:

> This is the idea of the open Web. CDMs are literally the opposite idea.

Yes, both a CDM and passworded accounts limit access to content. The difference is that CDM providers are only letting certain Web browsers view the content. Passworded accounts have no such limitation.

The open Web is dependent on any conceivable browser being interoperable with ALL Web content. Any barriers to interoperability are only technical. Third-parties, like a CDM provider, cannot setup arbitrary barriers. Otherwise, it is no longer "open". THIS is the definition of 'open Web'; it has nothing to do with authorization as in subscription only websites.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#246

Post by ReverseCold »

dasil003 wrote: post #231
cyborgx7 wrote: post #2

Translation: Netflix successfully lobied DRM into what is supposed to be the OPEN web standard, to the point where even Firefox couldn't afford not to support it. Dark days for the free exchange of information enabled by the web.

Sorry, but as someone who spent nearly a decade founding and building a premium content VOD service, and 6 of those years fighting fiercely against DRM and making great content available without DRM, I have both the knowledge and moral authority to say that you're living in a fantasy world. You might as well say that anyone who is not living an RMS-sanctioned ascetic technology lifestyle is hurting the cause of free…

Someone can fork FF though and make it so that the DRM looks like it's there to the websites it visits, but it isn't really there. There's no way DRM can't be removed if I own the device that can play it.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#247

Post by bearcobra »

franciscop wrote: post #240
dasil003 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but as someone who spent nearly a decade founding and building a premium content VOD service, and 6 of those years fighting fiercely against DRM and making great content available without DRM, I have both the knowledge and moral authority to say that you're living in a fantasy world. You might as well say that anyone who is not living an RMS-sanctioned ascetic technology lifestyle is hurting the cause of free…

I don't agree with "people want to watch what they want to watch." IMO the 2005-2015 wave of pirated content was due to the exact opposite; users (people in the living room) not going the extra literal mile to buy/rent a DVD. With the coming of Spotify & Co the music pirate scene has pretty much died off and it's because the physical CDs are replaces by something orders of magnitude easier . Same thing is happening w…

> What people want to do after work is to sit in the sofa and press "play". They don't want to start installing software.

Maybe, but Roku, Fire Sticks, Apple TV & Chromecast all seem to indicate that people are willing to put in some effort to set up a platform for video consumption. That combined with pre-installed solutions like iTunes and Microsoft Movies & TV give users some pretty easy options to compete with their browser.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#248

Post by tssva »

derefr wrote: post #212
daenney wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's terrible is Netflix could have used it's considerable influence to tell _that_ _Industry_ that we won't walk this walk anymore. Why do you assume they didn't? And if they did and the industry said no, what should they have done? Walk away, lose access to all its content, see a large part of their subscriber base move to different services that do support DRM and therefor get the content and eventually have t…

It's interesting that DRM is basically a "free market problem." In cases where there is a government-supported media production/distribution service, as with the BBC in Britain, no DRM is needed, because the success of the service is not dependent on income from licensing the content. Instead, the content itself is often put up for free on a government-hosted online archive, in as many formats as possible, to ensure…

About a 1 billion of BBC revenues of about 5 billion GBP come from licensing content worldwide. They utilize both geolocation access restrictions and DRM in an attempt to protect this revenue.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#249

Post by iso-8859-1 »

LeanderK wrote: post #227

What's the problem with DRM from a technical perspective? Why is it hurting the Web? I can't make the link, is it impossible for mozilla to provide an open-source implementation of the DRM standard?

Open-source DRM makes no sense, in that case anyone could just patch the DRM module to save to disk unencrypted while viewing.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#250

Post by azakai »

criddell wrote: post #163
izacus wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is a programming language a good analogy? The C++ spec says what a switch-statement should do, but nothing about how it must be implemented, right? No it isn't. Example: Netflix will ask for Widevine DRM provider (and exactly that provider!). It's a proprietary closed licensed platform and your system needs to have their binary blob licensed and compiled for it. If you don't have it and didn't pay for it, you won't…

I'm still not getting how this is a step backwards. Last year there was no Netflix on Linux. This year there is. Is there a better way to make strong DRM?

It's true that in the short term this can seem like a step forward - we went from bad to slightly less bad. But it's also harmful and dangerous in the long term for all the reasons being discussed.
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