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The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

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Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#71
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory. There is probably a lot of greenhouse emissions that goes into feeding the pigs though, like with most vegetable farming.

The discussion is only about the "outflow". The assumption is that you're releasing a set amount of carbon, but you can release it either as methane or as CO2 (and extract some energy out of it in the process).

[deleted]

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#72

How is this practice even legal? Could auto manafuctirers do the same thing? I'm sure they discourage aftermarket programming and whatnot, but using DRM to prevent DIY repairs is bringing things to a whole new level.

They are Trying

ODBII regulations for Highway Vehicles are what prevents the bulk of it today. ODBII does not apply to non-road vehicles like Tractors.

However Automanufacturers are moving anything that is not required by ODBII (which was passed in 1996 so it very out dated) to CANBUS and disallowing 3rd parties access. This makes is harder for Independent shops to service some of the non-mechanical parts of the car like the GPS, Radio, power seats, etc

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#73
>> they do it to avoid legal liability and fraudulent warrantee claims.

That is simply false... Both can be done with out locking out owner

They do this to Appease their Dealer Network, and to make sure their Dealers make money....

This has very very little to do with Legal Liability. Sorry you bought the corporate PR bullshit

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#74
post #11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed] There is no vehicle on the market (that I know of) which will refuse to run without an oil change. On my 17 year old BMW and 2 year old VW, the oil service indicator is just a reminder, a courtesy. On the BMW I can reset it with a paper clip. On the VW I can reset it on the screen on the dash. Honestly, most of the major things that go wrong with cars these days are still mechanical, and are still f…

You haven't experienced it, but this sort of thing does exist. Want to replace your relatively simple Volvo throttle body with a junkyard pull? Nope, it's programmed to your VIN. Similar for many radios. And the notoriously glitchy matrix display on the dash cluster of 90s BMW's. Also, PCM and body control modules, and more I've forgotten.

While it is tied to the ECM, and requires specialized tools to recalibate or change, they are required to operate on the ODBII standard which means 3rd parties can and do create these tools (and aftermarket parts), it also means independent repair shops can and do make the repairs

Here John Deere is not simply accused of making it more complex, but prohibiting any and all repairs not authorized by their own propriety computer software.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#75
post #33

This sort of thing is becoming the norm, and will become the norm with IoT. When every device is connected and has a computer, it can and will have the ability to be locked down, intercepted and monitored remotely. People don't know or care about privacy, that's been amply proven, they just want rhetoric. This is basically lending equipment while paying full price. We've gotten used to it with software, phones etc. I…

What you are (accurately) describing is the high end of the IoT space. The low end is almost equally disconcerting but in the other direction: no updates, no responsibility and wildly vulnerable to attack.

On the other hand, the low end is easily hackable (in both senses of the word) so at least you could fix the problems yourself if you were so inclined.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#77
post #33

This sort of thing is becoming the norm, and will become the norm with IoT. When every device is connected and has a computer, it can and will have the ability to be locked down, intercepted and monitored remotely. People don't know or care about privacy, that's been amply proven, they just want rhetoric. This is basically lending equipment while paying full price. We've gotten used to it with software, phones etc. I…

What you are (accurately) describing is the high end of the IoT space. The low end is almost equally disconcerting but in the other direction: no updates, no responsibility and wildly vulnerable to attack.

I find it cost effective to simply create a 2nd vlan at home for IOT use. It has no gateway for internet access and I can only access it from local devices or over my VPN. This way I can use inexpensive devices without the worry.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#78
Farmers are an independent group. They are used to relying on their own skills and hard work to make a living, and they are not going to tolerate this. I think it is an overreach for John Deere and other manufacturers to control what I do with my (my!) devices. I really hope this law gets passed to prevent companies from doing this. Farmers can really help, because everyone knows we depend on them for our food, so anything that messes with them, messes with all of us. I think they picked a fight with the wrong people.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#79
post #72

How is this practice even legal? Could auto manafuctirers do the same thing? I'm sure they discourage aftermarket programming and whatnot, but using DRM to prevent DIY repairs is bringing things to a whole new level.

They are Trying ODBII regulations for Highway Vehicles are what prevents the bulk of it today. ODBII does not apply to non-road vehicles like Tractors. However Automanufacturers are moving anything that is not required by ODBII (which was passed in 1996 so it very out dated) to CANBUS and disallowing 3rd parties access. This makes is harder for Independent shops to service some of the non-mechanical parts of the car…

ODBII has to be the greatest planned obsolescence scheme ever perpetrated. Want to continue driving that older car that is running perfectly fine? Sure go ahead and rip apart the dashboard to get at that sensor that happens to fail perfectly around 100k mile mark at a cost of about half the value of the car at the repair shop because it takes half a day for their tech to complete.

If it was about greenhouse gasses they'd let you keep the "dirty" car because the extra pound or two of emissions per gallon compared to a new car doesn't offset the carbon cost of building a new car from scratch.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#80
Has this hurt John Deere's sales? It is not like they are the only game in town and the quality of their product has diminished over the last couple of decades compared to alternatives.

We don't need right to mod legislation we need all companies to know that if you do this we will not buy your products.

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