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Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

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Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#251

Counterfeits in comingled inventory has become pretty common on Amazon these days. "Fulfillment by amazon" has led them to comingle inventories on common products, meaning every seller's product gets jumbled together. I've gotten counterfeit huggies diapers from amazon (invalid serial number for huggies 'points' and different build quality), Mach 3 razor blades, GE MWF Water filters, even a counterfeit baby bath. The…

After having received several counterfeit items (cheap electronics, chef's knife, household stuff) I avoid Amazon altogether. Funny thing, nowadays I trust Aliexpress or Gearbest (Chinese markets) more than Amazon or eBay -- at least I know what I pay for, what to expect and as a bonus, free shipping.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was under the impression that "under Amazon's brand" meant that the item is being "sold by Amazon" rather than a merchant using Amazon as a platform. I think eBay should verify items that are being sold by eBay, and Amazon should verify items that are being sold by Amazon, but eBay shouldn't be responsible for items being sold VIA eBay, nor should Amazon be responsible for items being sold VIA Amazon.

I'd be interested to have more detail than the tweet to understand the specifics. If they are saying Amazon is producing and selling these themselves, then that's a big deal. If they got a shipment of them that are counterfeit and are selling those, then it's a slightly less big deal IMHO, but still a serious problem.

The problem, as I understand it, is that Amazon mixes inventory from various sellers as long as its the same product. Or appears to be. It makes sense on paper but obviously doesn't work when counterfeit products slip into the stock.

If that's the case, ironically enough counterfeit sellers might actually end up having original products shipped / fulfilled by Amazon, which might add to the confusion, e.g. positive customer reviews on a bad listing.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>authentic products, but "not authorized" because they were factory overruns These are counterfeit products. When you contract with a factory to make 10K units with your brand on them, they aren't allowed to use your brand to sell any number of "overruns" past that.

I'm not familiar with the legal definition of "counterfeit" so you may be correct. I'm using the common definition of counterfeit, meaning a falsified imitation product that is usually low-quality and always produced by a third party who has "reverse-engineered" the target product. To most people, "counterfeit" does not mean literally the same product, produced by literally the same people, even if the company who co…

The legal situation is fairly straightforward. If you have a trademark, it means that anyone who who uses places it on goods for sale without your consent is counterfeiting.

>To most people, "counterfeit" does not mean literally the same product, produced by literally the same people, even if the company who commissioned the build didn't want some of those units to be released onto the market.

And gone through the same quality control process, and subject to the same defect rejection standards? A huge part of why consumers trust the trademark is that it puts the reputation of the marking company on the line with the product - the manufacturer is saying that they stand behind the product and have ensured that it's to standard. Following the same process with the same tools and using the same people doesn't have that, and it's fraud to represent that it does.

>Personally, I dislike the suggestion that an identical product is "counterfeit" merely because the company that commissioned the product is seeking to constrain supply and keep their price point artificially high.

Being able to claim the benefits of your brand by controlling the supply is incredibly important to functioning market economies. If you make a widget with a novel feature that customers like, you can capitalize on it adding your trade mark and commanding a price premium. This pays for things like creating novel features, or adding to build quality, or going through more stringent defect rejection, or whatnot.

Consumers want and are willing to pay for these features. If the manufacturer can get undercut by a marginal-cost-only supplier that doesn't have to amortize the development of these features, then we end up not creating the high quality products that consumers want.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#254
post #121
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in a goldfish I think you're already out of luck

I think he's trying to say "you can't teach a goldmine to ride a bicycle". Edit: Humorless. Sad.

Pure goldfish, thanks for that.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just make sure you don't have any Kindle books or AWS resources tied to the same Amazon account, in case Amazon cancels your account over the chargeback.

Ugh... there's a bit of stallman is right in the thought of avoiding seeking legal recourse because someone can take your ebooks away. (I know they "weren't mine")

Just strip the DRM from your ebooks when you buy them; then nobody can take them away from you.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>poor experiences with cheap phone chargers/etc are the reason I've been sticking to the Amazon Basics line. This is a brilliant strategy on Amazon's part.

> This is a brilliant strategy on Amazon's part. Indeed. I was recently in the market for a small mono/tripod to bring with me on vacation. Looking at the "Best Sellers" for this category, it's blatantly obvious that Amazon is just taking the existing top 3 models, copying them almost 1:1, and then undercutting the original product price with their "Amazon Basics" branded product. How are you supposed to survive sell…

Are you sure they're not just buying them in from the manufacturers and rebranding?

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a brilliant strategy on Amazon's part. Indeed. I was recently in the market for a small mono/tripod to bring with me on vacation. Looking at the "Best Sellers" for this category, it's blatantly obvious that Amazon is just taking the existing top 3 models, copying them almost 1:1, and then undercutting the original product price with their "Amazon Basics" branded product. How are you supposed to survive sell…

Are you sure they're not just buying them in from the manufacturers and rebranding?

They might be, but what would the manufacturer's incentive be to compete with "Amazon Basics" ?

Amazon is selling it for less, and putting their branding on the product.

I'm hardly a widget manufacturer, but to me this would be a nonsensical choice for a them to manufacture as an ODM for Amazon when they're also selling their own product through Amazon.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#258
After reading the comments here I think I won't ever buy anything from Amazon.

I think I'm probably better off using Ebay. At least then I don't have the illusion that there is any kind of central control.

And at least so far Ebay's system has worked well, when goods haven't arrive within the specified date it has gone like this: they email me asking me to contact the seller, seller says give me more time, I say ok, extra time runs out, ebay refunds my money, goods arrive about ten days later. Of course I've never spent more than about USD50 at a time and I'm not looking for branded goods anyway.

I get the impression (confirmation bias probably) that the seller's reputation matters more on Ebay than on Amazon.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>authentic products, but "not authorized" because they were factory overruns These are counterfeit products. When you contract with a factory to make 10K units with your brand on them, they aren't allowed to use your brand to sell any number of "overruns" past that.

I'm not familiar with the legal definition of "counterfeit" so you may be correct. I'm using the common definition of counterfeit, meaning a falsified imitation product that is usually low-quality and always produced by a third party who has "reverse-engineered" the target product. To most people, "counterfeit" does not mean literally the same product, produced by literally the same people, even if the company who co…

As a fellow layman I disagree with your anecdotal definition. I definitely consider this excess production to be counterfeit.

Re: Sellers printing counterfeit books and selling under Amazon's brand

#260
post #87

Ohh, I get it now. HN hates Amazon. I wasn't aware of that. It's not Google defenders or Python for Kids people clicking down. It's people who have a visceral hate for Amazon. I knew HN basically hated Apple, but this is news to me. Thanks for the clarification guys :)

I worked at Amazon for eight years, enjoyed it, and think a lot of the company is at least trying to do the right thing. I think this inventory commingling thing sounds like a terrible idea, and I'm happy for people to hold the company responsible for its downsides.
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