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The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

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Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#51
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point. This isn't like biodiesel or ethanol, where the co2 would end up in the air anyway. A methane generator actively creates a carbon form that is significantly worse for the environment.

No. This process is 100% carbon neutral. It recycles the carbon already in the pig manure as opposed to natural gas which is a fossil fuel and adds to the carbon cycle.

The main question to me would be how much becomes atmopheric from raw pig manure versus digester.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it true methane is so much worse a geeenhouse gas than co2 ("20x")? Wouldn't that mean him turning methane into co2 is not just carbon neutral, but great for the environment?

> Is it true methane is so much worse a geeenhouse gas than co2 ("20x")? Wouldn't that mean him turning methane into co2 is not just carbon neutral, but great for the environment? It's true and it actually has a GWP[0] of ~80 over 20 years (so over 20 years a given mass of methane traps 80 times as much heat as the same mass of CO2), although it degrades back to CO2 and water in 12 years. So yes if you're releasing t…

From what I understood, they were using methane in internal combustion engines, so they are not releasing methane into atmosphere, rather burning it and producing CO2. I would assume that some of the methane is going to end up in atmosphere (engine efficiency, leaking from gas tank), but compare that to untreated pig manure, which would produce said methane anyhow.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#53

How is this practice even legal? Could auto manafuctirers do the same thing? I'm sure they discourage aftermarket programming and whatnot, but using DRM to prevent DIY repairs is bringing things to a whole new level.

Tesla already does. If you have an accident in a Tesla, it will shut down its computer and you can't reactivate it without bringing it to a Tesla dealership. While I understand why they want to do it that way, it's inherently customer-hostile, because Tesla can refuse to re-activate the car. Imagine if you have a 15 year old Tesla that gets into a minor fender bender, and Tesla says that they won't reactivate your car because it's not supported anymore - but they are super happy to sell you a new one.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#54
post #6

How is this practice even legal? Could auto manafuctirers do the same thing? I'm sure they discourage aftermarket programming and whatnot, but using DRM to prevent DIY repairs is bringing things to a whole new level.

My dad is a mechanical engineer who loves cars. I spent my youth listening to him lamenting the fact that modern cara have too many electronics and DIY protections. That you can't even make an oil change without also notifying the computer, the interface for which is proprietary and only sold to licensed dealers, or the car would refuse to run because it would think its oil is bad. He reminisced about the good old da…

My dad was a mechanic by trade, and he used to say that people always complained about cars getting harder and harder to repair. When direct fuel injection was introduced, people who were used to working with carborateurs complained about "end of automotive industry" - yet now any mechanic can work with this. Same when high-pressure common rail system was introduced for diesels - initially, massive negative reaction from the auto repair industry, now everyone knows how to work with it.

I know people who bought brand new 2016 BMWs and Mercs, and the first thing they did was mod them - and the computer seems to work fine with whatever silly things they did with the engine.

So I don't think it's all that bad.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#55
post #11
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed] There is no vehicle on the market (that I know of) which will refuse to run without an oil change. On my 17 year old BMW and 2 year old VW, the oil service indicator is just a reminder, a courtesy. On the BMW I can reset it with a paper clip. On the VW I can reset it on the screen on the dash. Honestly, most of the major things that go wrong with cars these days are still mechanical, and are still f…

You haven't experienced it, but this sort of thing does exist. Want to replace your relatively simple Volvo throttle body with a junkyard pull? Nope, it's programmed to your VIN. Similar for many radios. And the notoriously glitchy matrix display on the dash cluster of 90s BMW's. Also, PCM and body control modules, and more I've forgotten.

Tying elements like radios to VINs is actually a result of extremely rampant theft in 90s and early 00s, and I would never consider it a bad thing. Annoying, yes, but it has eventually led to dramatic decrease in car break-ins and theft over the last 10 years.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure about the laws in the US, but my wife works as a chemical engineer at a sewage treatment plant here in Sweden and they run _all_ incoming sewage through a aneorobic digester. This generates enough methane to run all the busses in Stockholm and then some. Our car also (VW Passat) also runs on bio-methane. Important to note that this is 100% carbon-neutral since it uses carbon already in cycle, as opposed to f…

Is it true methane is so much worse a geeenhouse gas than co2 ("20x")? Wouldn't that mean him turning methane into co2 is not just carbon neutral, but great for the environment?

> Wouldn't that mean him turning methane into co2 is not just carbon neutral, but great for the environment?

Yes, though if you use the aneorobic digester to make the methane in the first place, it's moot.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This process is 100% carbon neutral. It recycles the carbon already in the pig manure as opposed to natural gas which is a fossil fuel and adds to the carbon cycle.

The main question to me would be how much becomes atmopheric from raw pig manure versus digester.

No digester: manure -> ammonium and methane straight into atmosphere

With digester: manure -> compressed methane -> combustion engine -> energy + Co2.

It's such an enormous win-win it's strange not everyone is doing this.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This process is 100% carbon neutral. It recycles the carbon already in the pig manure as opposed to natural gas which is a fossil fuel and adds to the carbon cycle.

The main question to me would be how much becomes atmopheric from raw pig manure versus digester.

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Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it true methane is so much worse a geeenhouse gas than co2 ("20x")? Wouldn't that mean him turning methane into co2 is not just carbon neutral, but great for the environment?

> Wouldn't that mean him turning methane into co2 is not just carbon neutral, but great for the environment? Yes, though if you use the aneorobic digester to make the methane in the first place, it's moot.

But that methane is used to drive a combustion engine. Otherwise the ammonium and methane from the manure would just emit into the atmosphere.

It's basically free energy.

Re: The thriving black market of John Deere tractor hacking

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it true methane is so much worse a geeenhouse gas than co2 ("20x")? Wouldn't that mean him turning methane into co2 is not just carbon neutral, but great for the environment?

> Wouldn't that mean him turning methane into co2 is not just carbon neutral, but great for the environment? Yes, though if you use the aneorobic digester to make the methane in the first place, it's moot.

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