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Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

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Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#431

Post by noir_lord »

GuiA wrote: post #207
KirinDave wrote: post #199

I see many people here trying to puzzle out why electronics are under a partial ban from cabins but not from checked baggage . It's a good question, since if there is a fire or explosion hazard on a plane the last place you want it is wrapped in a wad of flammable cloth and synthetics, even if it is oxygen starved. The only motivation I can imagine is: They want these devices in checked luggage because checked luggag…

This. And also people not having devices on their person means they can't quickly text friends/family if they get detained/mistreated/etc. It seems like we're getting closer and closer to being in a situation where people who can should avoid going to the US at all, and make their reasoning known. Ie, refuse to give talks, attend conferences, etc. in the US.

> It seems like we're getting closer and closer to being in a situation where people who can should avoid going to the US at all.

For me already well past that point, no way would I travel to the US for any reason, work or pleasure.

I'm from the UK and I'm seriously contemplating getting out of here while the going is good as well.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#432

Post by foldr »

saganus wrote: post #417
foldr wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because it's missing everything and seems like a new phone? Yes. Remember, they don't need proof of anything. You're not on trial. It's largely up to the judgment of the individual officer whether or not someone can enter the US as a visitor. If they ask you why there's nothing on your phone, you'd better be able to convince them that it's for some other reason than "I don't want you to see it". Can you do that? Wel…

Well, shit. I mean, I've been buying burner phones when crossing to the US since several years ago, just because I do am afraid of getting mugged and losing everything while traveling, and since every trip to the US has been for vacation, I really didn't need anything on my phone other than emergency contacts (insurance, etc) and my reservation numbers for whatever I was going to visit. So hopefully if I ever travel…

It's not really that wow. There's always a lot of judgment involved in admission of visitors. It's never been an entirely fair and transparent process.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#433

Post by colordrops »

snovv_crash wrote: post #415
zkms wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Millimetre wave (and backscatter x-ray) imagery won't penetrate skin and certainly won't reveal the presence of contraband inside a human. There's commercially available penetrating X-ray human body security scanners, but afaict those just have been used in prisons, not in airports (yet!).

They are also used in diamond mines. In fact, that's what the LODOX (low dosage x-ray) system was first invented for.

To find diamonds or to scan workers for smuggled diamonds?

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#434

Post by gambiting »

SerLava wrote: post #427
gambiting wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd actually argue that Bin Laden failed terribly at his stated goal - he wanted to make Americans stop for a second and consider why they are being targeted, and then hopefully discover all the atrocities their own government has inflicted on Bin Laden's people, and well, hopefully revolt. But America in general didn't spend even a second considering this. https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/wcpls/z/c5cabqo

Well I suppose, in a sense, it would be wrong to significantly change our behavior towards alignment with OBL's goals. That would probably trigger a lot more terrorism.

Well, yes, of course. I'm not saying that we should have aligned with his goals - but the world certainly failed to get why the attack was done in the first place - for most, it only had a religious motivation, or they think that terrorists hate American freedom so they had to attack.

Like the comment I linked says - terrorist goal wasn't that you get patted down when traveling, or surrendering your privacy to the encroaching surveillance state. Those are goals of the US government, and here, the government is winning. The terrorists however, are definitely not.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#435

Post by Ductapemaster »

joezydeco wrote: post #386
KirinDave wrote: post #199

I see many people here trying to puzzle out why electronics are under a partial ban from cabins but not from checked baggage . It's a good question, since if there is a fire or explosion hazard on a plane the last place you want it is wrapped in a wad of flammable cloth and synthetics, even if it is oxygen starved. The only motivation I can imagine is: They want these devices in checked luggage because checked luggag…

Hmm. A charge/discharge circuit with a voltage booster and very large capacitor in line? Doesn't take a large stretch of the imagination for a CBP official to declare that a "detonation device". Now you're really screwed.

You nailed it: https://www.usbkill.com/usb-killer/13-usb-killer-v3.html

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#436

Post by DrJokepu »

saganus wrote: post #430
DrJokepu wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're searching your phone, it's likely that you're already in secondary inspection. At that point if you're an alien they're already suspecting that you're inadmissible and they are trying to build a case. They will ask a lot of questions in secondary inspection. If they search your phone and find that it's wiped, they will ask about it and they will expect a convincing explanation. CBP officers working in seco…

This is definitely very scary and I didn't mean to say that I would try to outsmart them because as you say, they do this for a living and I'm not a professional liar/spy. However I think my case still applies in the sense that I would expect a lot of people to also buy a burner phone for a vacation trip just as a way to avoid loss in the event of a robbery, instead of as a way to try to outsmart border agents, so I…

They actually release these numbers: https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/CBP_DHS_20...

Out of the 375 million passengers processed in FY 2014, 34 million was referred to secondary inspection and about 223,000 was found inadmissible. Keep in mind that these numbers also include US citizens who cannot be found inadmissible, but could be referred to secondary inspection for other reasons.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#437

Post by rndstr »

ghshephard wrote: post #202
ocschwar wrote: post #131

What utter bullshit. If they allow phones at all, then the threat cannot be an issue of a passenger sending a command out of one of these. The threat has to be the device itself. Now, a standard issue iPad is no threat, so we're talking about a customized device made to look like on. Except, if terrorists are going to the trouble to do this, they can just as easily put whatever bad thing they want to put into the cas…

I had a colleague fly through Amman last night. They had him remove 100% of everything from his briefcase and checked everything for bomb residue. If I had to guess, the US has intelligence that someone is going to bring a bomb (or some other weapon) on board a plane using a Laptop Form factor. I'm also guessing that the type of damage one can do with a device in the Cabin is greater than that can be done in the lugg…

Why not use that intel to catch the person instead of telling him? He can now just use as different airline?

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#438

Post by robotresearcher »

belorn wrote: post #288
robotresearcher wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan of security theatre. But the TSA does not have to catch anyone to be very effective. In fact it its intended deterrence effect was effective it would never catch anyone at all.

So does the deterrence effect increase by the number of screenings? The physiological effect is not measurable in this case, and if we compare it to the placebo effect which is measurable, there is little proof that eating two fake pills has any benefit over eating one. How big portion of terrorists is likely to completely ignore the fact of one screening but be deterred by the existence of a second one?

Rationally, the deterrence should increase monotonically with the chance of being caught.

With two serial 90% effective checks, you have a 99% effective system. Such a low chance of success means attackers should try something else instead.

Now, with probably not even close to 99% screening, along with cockpit doors and fight-motivated passengers, the deterrence seems powerful enough that we are seeing other kinds of attacks.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#439

Post by jsmthrowaway »

gambiting wrote: post #349
TeMPOraL wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put it this way: 9/11 achieved exactly what was intended - it sent the US into a tailspin, and it's dragging the rest of the first world down with it. The current condition of US politics wrt. terrorism is best described as acute case of autoimmune disease. The damage of overreaction being much, much worse than the original attack. That doesn't mean Bin Laden won - history is not a game, the round didn't end ye…

I'd actually argue that Bin Laden failed terribly at his stated goal - he wanted to make Americans stop for a second and consider why they are being targeted, and then hopefully discover all the atrocities their own government has inflicted on Bin Laden's people, and well, hopefully revolt. But America in general didn't spend even a second considering this. https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/wcpls/z/c5cabqo

This is the correct answer. We overreacted, sure, but we did not react the way he wanted. I could not agree more with that (excellent) commenter about cheapening the situation.

Re: Most Electronics Being Banned on Certain US-Bound Flights

#440

Post by linkregister »

kogepathic wrote: post #251
linkregister wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the threat model of those countries doesn't include terrorist hijackings. You will surely experience a thorough screening in Israel or Frankfurt. Every major U.S. airport I've been to in the past 5 years has had ample bottle filling stations.

> You will surely experience a thorough screening in Israel or Frankfurt. I think Israel is special, because they use behavioural profiling on you as well. I've been through Frankfurt on an inter-EU flight, and we were put into the priority lane because things were quiet. The priority lane only had (has?) a metal detector, no body scanner. So if the body scanners were really about security, why would they have a lane…

If you are flying to a destination outside the Schengen zone from Frankfurt, you have a strong chance of receiving a close frisk. The frisk is far beyond what is acceptable in U.S. culture and norms.
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