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David Rockefeller has died

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Re: David Rockefeller has died

#121

Post by Florin_Andrei »

iliketosleep wrote: post #76
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why globalization must necessarily mean total domination by the "elites". Yes, it's a significant risk factor in that scenario, but the two don't come in a package, bound together with epoxy. It would only happen if we continue to refuse to address the issue of inequality - this time on a global scale. Some form of globalization is actually the best case scenario, the golden path for this world. It must i…

i don't think inequality can be solved by globalization. if you look at the poor countries, you'll find a multitude of structural problems. until these structural problems are dealt with, globalization is likely to feed corruption. i agree that globalization would reduce the risk of global conflict - there would only be one side. thus, if the wrong people were in power there would be no way to fight them. that's scar…

> i don't think inequality can be solved by globalization.

No, it's the other way'round.

On the way to globalization, we need to make sure inequality stays within reasonable levels, otherwise the whole thing will fail.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#122

Post by rayiner »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #110
rayiner wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern European welfare state - until robots take over - is all about carving out a local optimum in a sea of scarcity. How do you propose to have cradle-to-grave welfare within a system that encourages labor in developed countries to bitterly compete with desparate people in developing countries?

Well that was the Westphalian agreement. We're sovereign states and can operate as we see fit. If international policy has some impact on our domestic policy -- so be it. Much the same as we have free will and are also impacted by our environment. There are people in places who are happy with the way things are, and people in other places who wouldn't like it that way.

I don't think I understand your point at all. How do you preserve modern European welfare states in the face of globalization?

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#123

Post by vcryan »

laichzeit0 wrote: post #109

The primary goal of Islam, according to its doctrine, is to bring the law of Allah (known as Sharia) to all people on earth. Sharia is the right way to live, and all people should be subject to it. Please explain how you plan to "live together" when there are people who are actively pursuing an ideology that in no way, shape or form can be altered because it is the actual, literal, word of God himself and it must be…

Sharia is the codification of the laws of Islam to make it easier for Muslims who want to live according to those laws to follow the laws. Without such a codification it is difficult to know what is a religious law and what is a tradition (for example). It is an absurd notion that Muslims want non-Muslims to live according to Sharia... it doesn't make sense. If you are not Muslim... why would you live according to such laws?

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#124

Post by endisukaj »

aylmao wrote: post #54
unityByFreedom wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encouraging international cooperation isn't consolidating power. It's learning to live together on the same planet.

"a more integrated global political and economic structure" doesn't mean "international cooperation" though, it just means more free trade policies, and international political regulation instead of national. International cooperation can be achieved without an integrated political and economic structure. My country doesn't need to have the same economic policies and regulations as your country to live in harmony wit…

What is wrong with more free trade policies?

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#125

Post by dang »

CriticalSection wrote: post #53

> The Osteopathic profession was the only group that was organized enough to survive the Medical Guild's purge of non-Rockefeller-approved approaches to medicine. What? The Medical Guild purged (almost) all of the quacks and snake oil salesman out of medicine, and aimed American medicine to be directed by the scientific method and biology. This was a good thing. You're right, most of the quacks, snake handlers, anti-…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13915838 and marked it off-topic.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#126

Post by 24gttghh »

hwillis wrote: post #96
Exofunctor wrote: post #33

I am, by most metrics, an ardent globalist; I advocate absolute free trade and absolute free movement. However, it's not very hard to recognize that many people's definition of globalism effectively includes such things as forced immigration, cultural erasure, and overburdening of welfare states, which are conducive to increased conflict rather than increased cooperation.

>forced immigration, cultural erasure, and overburdening of welfare states, which are conducive to increased conflict rather than increased cooperation. We have had all of those things for over a century in the US. You don't even have to be a citizen to be able to immigrate to any state in the union from any other state. "Cultural erasure" is even more nonsensical than "cultural appropriation". Overburdening of welfa…

>The EU is less than half the size of the US. The problems you are describing are ridiculous and irrelevant.

By what metric?

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#127

Post by Florin_Andrei »

gph wrote: post #104
Florin_Andrei wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why globalization must necessarily mean total domination by the "elites". Yes, it's a significant risk factor in that scenario, but the two don't come in a package, bound together with epoxy. It would only happen if we continue to refuse to address the issue of inequality - this time on a global scale. Some form of globalization is actually the best case scenario, the golden path for this world. It must i…

But you're describing some kind of theoretical ideal world. We don't live in that world. No one has found a good mechanism for controlling inequality within their own borders and/or ethnic group that scales to anything beyond the size of a village. Yea domination by elites and globalization don't theoretically have to occur together. But looking at history and the current state of the world... what do you think is mo…

> But you're describing some kind of theoretical ideal world. We don't live in that world.

Everything is "theoretical" and "ideal" and "impossible" before it actually happens. Electronic computers were an impossibility to James Watt era engineers. Steam engines were an impossibility to the architects of the Parthenon. Raising large stone edifices was an impossibility to hunter-gatherers roaming the savanna. Yet all these things happened in due course of time.

> But looking at history and the current state of the world... what do you think is more likely?

I see a generally ascending arc, with local dips and bumps. The trends look good in the long run, although the short run is always difficult to predict.

Of course, that is not an absolute guarantee of success. Nothing is. The best case scenario is not going to happen without a lot of effort, some substantial amount of time, and likely some sacrifices along the way.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#128

Post by rosser »

kbenson wrote: post #98
rosser wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, that's why we trust doctors, because the bar is that high. Two thoughts: 1. The old joke, "What do you call the person who graduated from medical school at the bottom of their class?" "Doctor." 2. The ordeal of residency isn't about setting the bar "high", nearly so much as it's about, "well, I went through this shit, so you have to, too". (Source: I have several doctor friends. All of them think it's bulls…

1. What do you call the the person who graduated from SEAL training at the bottom of their class? A SEAL. I get the joke, but part of the point is that top and bottom of the class are only relevant for those who actually graduate, and who is capable of graduating can be entirely different based on the goals of the institution. From "everyone can, with work" as in High School, to "only those who are good enough" as (h…

There's a pretty staggering breadth of admissions requirements for the various accredited medical schools in the US, and plenty of offshore schools that effectively will take anyone — basically MD mills. The Dominican Republic, in particular, is well-known for this.

(Yes, many of the offshore medical schools are LCME-accredited and legit, and have trained some fantastic physicians, but broadly speaking, they're taking people who couldn't get into an on-shore school.)

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#129

Post by dang »

laichzeit0 wrote: post #109

The primary goal of Islam, according to its doctrine, is to bring the law of Allah (known as Sharia) to all people on earth. Sharia is the right way to live, and all people should be subject to it. Please explain how you plan to "live together" when there are people who are actively pursuing an ideology that in no way, shape or form can be altered because it is the actual, literal, word of God himself and it must be…

Of all the circles of internet hell, religious flamewars are particularly to be avoided. Please don't do this on HN.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13915801 and marked it off-topic.

Re: David Rockefeller has died

#130

Post by hwillis »

24gttghh wrote: post #126
hwillis wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>forced immigration, cultural erasure, and overburdening of welfare states, which are conducive to increased conflict rather than increased cooperation. We have had all of those things for over a century in the US. You don't even have to be a citizen to be able to immigrate to any state in the union from any other state. "Cultural erasure" is even more nonsensical than "cultural appropriation". Overburdening of welfa…

>The EU is less than half the size of the US. The problems you are describing are ridiculous and irrelevant. By what metric?

By land, obviously. Meaning that immigration is much easier to control if they want to, culture is much more concentrated and therefor much harder to "erase", and that there aren't giant empty rural unprofitable flyover states like there are in the US. Inequality in the US is much greater and has always been much greater than in the EU. The only difference is that in the US nobody gives a shit.
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