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Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

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Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#211
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think he needs the money after being CMO at Target. This is what having fuck-you-money gets you: The ability to walk away not care about the financial consequences.

Target CMO gets you 10s of millions ($7 million comp last year), or a bit over 100 million after a decade or so. People are funny. Millionaires get billionaire-envy and are sometimes willing to risk jail to add the extra zeros. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajat_Gupta

I just read his wiki page, obviously a brilliant man, its a shame that he went down this path.

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#213
post #145
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget Bayer... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer#World_War_II

...Who also made and make lots of money. I don't think that anyone is disputing that absolute scumbags can stay in power if they make people money, but Uber... loses... money.

On the contrary, their stock valuation is staggering. If it simply increases to eclipse normal companies they can burn all they like.

It's more than a bit like a tipping point for the moral soul of market capitalism (to the extent that's not already an oxymoron).

Basically Uber will continue to dominate so long as being a complete, total monster is MORE important than any other consideration. That's what's propping them up: their continued existence is an indication that, to global capital as it exists today, the various considerations of business all boil down to one single Darwinian consideration: what will make the most money, all else aside.

Uber is a vote for 'all else aside'. They're a vote for literally capital crushing everything else before it, for the belief that abstracted power (in the form of money) can always do anything it wants. In a sense it's a vote of confidence in the freest of free markets: as long as everybody continues to believe, logically Uber can never fail because they can always out-scumbag everybody else and if you're certain that's the key to success it's illogical to break faith with 'em. That doesn't mean 'liking' it: you can hate it and still believe that's the only way to success.

The one crack in the support beam: this literally requires everyone to agree, because the ONLY thing holding Uber up is the collective confidence in their valuation. They can only burn infinitely if they represent something vitally important to capital as a whole. This is why they're still Uber, and it's pretty revealing.

But it requires just about unanimous agreement that Uber is the way of the future. It doesn't take many defectors before Uber stops making the rules for being a unicorn darling trend-setter: and people do have a sense of what's at stake here. If Uber is NOT the future… then they lose a LOT of money.

Uber is the Enron model. They are incapable of crumbling, or dwindling. They can only be the way of the future and the one model for everyone going forward… or explode, very suddenly and catastrophically.

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most likely thing that happened was that Jones said 'you go or I go' and that that ended with him going. It's entirely possible (and more likely) that he said "these people need to go" and got told "no, they're high performers we can't do without."

Well, those 'high performers' are a liability more than they are an asset at the moment so that would have been a very bad call. Uber is not exactly SpaceX and any 'high performers' that think they are so above the law that they get to destroy the company culture and cause a tsunami of bad press should be sacked pronto. Nothing less will start to stem the tide.

It all depends on what constitutes 'bad press' and the company culture. If the valuation of Uber is based on how much they are monsters with no consideration for anything else, none of this counts as bad press provided that Uber can still beat everything and everybody it's in conflict with.

Stealing ideas from Google? If they can't get away with it, that's catastrophic. If they DO get away with it that's a thumb in the eye to Google, much like their normal operations are a gutpunch to every legal system they're in conflict with.

The whole point is this: everything negative about Uber turns into a positive for their valuation if they can get away with it. I don't see any possible event or action that would break this rule. Travis Kalanick could eat babies on nationwide TV and it would help their valuation IF he got away with it, because it would be more grandstanding about how Uber is ultimately powerful and can always do anything it wants because of that power.

View any bad press in that light: are they getting away with it? If they are, it's more evidence they make the rules, and making the rules is why they're valued at Uber levels. If they are above any and all laws, the valuation is justified or undervalued.

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#215
post #12

The "echo chamber" works both ways. When there is excitement and buzz, it drives startups to success like no where else. Apparently it works in reverse too and people love to see the big kid on the block take hits.

Sorry, this is not just or mainly what's happening here. Every time an anti-Uber article comes up, someone pops in and says something to the effect of your comment, but it simply isn't true. Uber is evil. They do evil things. They should not be supported. Yes, people like to see the titans fall, but people also like to see those who behave poorly get what they deserve for that behavior. That's what's happening here.…

The question is whether market capital wants to see those who behave poorly get what they deserve for that behavior (and its idea of 'deserve' may be somewhat counterintuitive).

Evil is more profitable than good, because of externalities. The question is, how MUCH more profitable, and for how long? There are also patterns to consider which have to do with over-reaching, hubris and inability to work within any external context.

Uber is the kind of evil that doesn't play nicely with other evil. It's an extraordinary profit opportunity and treated as such, right up to the point where it explodes. The whole thing is based on conflict and dominating everything it touches, but it escalates where it doesn't have to: it can only continue to grow when it's not meaningfully opposed.

As such, Uber doing evil actions isn't meaningful, but Uber running afoul of Google in legal conflict is meaningful. Government and law aren't rich enough to oppose Uber, but Google is, and if Uber prevails against Google that drastically weakens Google.

I think it'll go the other way. Google is like a considerably more restrained Uber. They're in a position to do what governments and laws cannot.

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#216

If you are living in the Bay Area you would think Uber is a bad company. But I just met someone outside of the Bay and realized people love Uber. They have a lot of problems and a lot to do but they are still the market leader.

Uber has certain ethical issues with its internal culture and with how it interfaces with local government/regulations, but the customer experience is really excellent compared to traditional taxis.

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about what fraction of the #deleteUber participants reinstall the app within a week... I'm guessing around 60%?

A surprisingly large number of seemingly-unconnected people I know have switched to Lyft. The switching itself isn't the issue, it's that these people come from several different social groups and they are all surprisingly vocal about switching.

The fact that my friends still pile up at Chick-Fil-A makes me want to disagree. No matter how principled people claim to be, they always end up back with what they know and like, in this case Uber.

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#218
post #77

Serious question - why hasn't the Uber board replaced Kalanick yet? While it is indisputable he successfully brought Uber to where it is now, it doesn't seem like he has the good judgement to be leading Uber at this stage of the company's lifecycle. Wouldn't the best thing for the company at this point be a complete overhaul of leadership?

You say that -- and externally the place looks like a catastrophe -- but we don't know what's going on under the covers. If they saw him as a true risk he'd be gone by now.

Not if he controls the company (which by all appearences, he does)

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#219
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think the self driving car stuff is existential for uber because the drivers cost them too much money. it's a race against their ability to raise capital.

and yet Google is saying some of that software was stolen and there was that other recent post that showed their cars still needed a pretty large amount of driver intervention .. so that's probably not working out for them at the moment either.

correct. they've fucked themselves. i'm really curious what their financials look like, because i bet google has an approximation, and google may know that this lawsuit's costs will break the camel's back.

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im guessing if uber crashes and burns, it will make investors re-evaluate stock-but-no-control deals.

If only that were true. Lots of VC is simply FOMO at any cost.

If that is true, then I really need to drink my ethics out of my conscious, just grab that 'free' money, burn it on foosball tables, beanbag chairs, blow, trips to Goa, etc. and ride the late 'teens wave to a 'remorseful' book deal and the inevitable Scorsese film. Gosh, what is wrong with me?
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