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Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

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Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#31

Post by aphextron »

koolba wrote: post #23
aphextron wrote: post #13

I really hope that Uber serves as a warning to companies who think they can ignore customer complaints. I've never dealt with such an opaque company in my entire life, in terms of getting any actual human support whatsoever regarding anything.

> I really hope that Uber serves as a warning to companies who think they can ignore customer complaints. I've never dealt with such an opaque company in my entire life, in terms of getting any actual human support whatsoever regarding anything. I've had positive experiences interacting with Uber support. The few times I've contacted them via the app to report an issue with a ride I've gotten a response relatively qu…

>But that's not what any of the recent talk about Uber is about. The issues are about being there as an employee, the culture they promote, and the values they espouse.

I really think it is related, though. Those values flow from the top down, and when executives set the tone for treating people unfairly the rest of the business will suffer down to the lowest level of employees.

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#32

Post by ivraatiems »

redm wrote: post #12

The "echo chamber" works both ways. When there is excitement and buzz, it drives startups to success like no where else. Apparently it works in reverse too and people love to see the big kid on the block take hits.

Sorry, this is not just or mainly what's happening here. Every time an anti-Uber article comes up, someone pops in and says something to the effect of your comment, but it simply isn't true.

Uber is evil. They do evil things. They should not be supported. Yes, people like to see the titans fall, but people also like to see those who behave poorly get what they deserve for that behavior. That's what's happening here.

For reference, here is a list I compiled a while ago of all the scummy things Uber does that would make one glad to see it go.[1]

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13793923

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#33

Post by Anderkent »

Analemma_ wrote: post #27
redm wrote: post #12

The "echo chamber" works both ways. When there is excitement and buzz, it drives startups to success like no where else. Apparently it works in reverse too and people love to see the big kid on the block take hits.

Kalanick forgot that proverb we're taught as kids: "Be nice to the people you pass on the way up, because you'll be seeing them again on the way back down."

More like he forgot the proverb we're not taught yet, but probably will be soon: "The viral circlejerk can get on you for no reason at any point, and you can pretty much do nothing about that".

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#34

Post by dharmon »

jimmywanger wrote: post #25
was_boring wrote: post #6

While this is big for the company, I am curious what it means for recruitment of future executives at the company. My understanding is at this level it's about personal connections and grooming an image. With that in mind, does it become harder to attract great executives on a go-forward basis for Uber?

> With that in mind, does it become harder to attract great executives A good analogy would be attracting candidates for coaching positions in sports. If you're a team in a bad situation, you'll have to settle for candidates that don't have the experience usually required for the position, or people who've done it before who haven't had huge success. Also most great execs are already in a great position - why would t…

There's an important difference: compensation.

If a losing team wants a winning coach, they will either have to settle for someone inexperienced, or pay up to get someone experienced in turnaround situations.

Same with companies, except with turnarounds the most substantial part of compensation is the company's stock. If the turnaround is successful, the executive will get wildly rich as the stock appreciates (and rightly so).

With Uber, the stock is greatly overvalued, which means anybody coming in is trying to turnaround the company, but only to maintain the current imaginary valuation. Where's the upside?

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#35

Post by rickycook »

taude wrote: post #29
CydeWeys wrote: post #8

Uber doesn't have a prayer of rehabilitation until Kalanick himself goes. The rot goes straight up to him. Jeff Jones was a much more recent acquisition who came from staid corporate America (Target) -- I don't think he was the problem.

I agree. There's enough social awareness that people don't want to support a company run by jerks like Travis Kalanick. In an era with socially conscious consumers, integrity of leadership matters. It is easy enough to switch to Lyft (I live in major metropolitan area) without any inconvenience. And the Lyft driver's I've talked with about all the controversy say they make more $$$ and are happier driving for Lyft.

i wish that were true outside the US :( i really really want lyft here in AU so that i can ditch uber

as it stands, the options are taxis and not getting private transport, which is the option i've taken when it's not too inconvenient

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#36

Post by TheCowboy »

taude wrote: post #29
CydeWeys wrote: post #8

Uber doesn't have a prayer of rehabilitation until Kalanick himself goes. The rot goes straight up to him. Jeff Jones was a much more recent acquisition who came from staid corporate America (Target) -- I don't think he was the problem.

I agree. There's enough social awareness that people don't want to support a company run by jerks like Travis Kalanick. In an era with socially conscious consumers, integrity of leadership matters. It is easy enough to switch to Lyft (I live in major metropolitan area) without any inconvenience. And the Lyft driver's I've talked with about all the controversy say they make more $$$ and are happier driving for Lyft.

There is still the problem that without the competition that Uber provides, Lyft likely becomes a more typical company and begins increasing their margins in ways that customers and employees dislike.

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#37

Post by onion2k »

israrkhan wrote: post #24

Given that he quit just in six months, probably he did not even wait for his RSU grants to mature (1 year cliff for stock grants). The situation might be much worse that what appears.

I'd guess the real problem is that Jones can't change things without other upper management agreeing to his proposals, and they're not agreeing.

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#38

Post by untilHellbanned »

bsg75 wrote: post #21

> He is leaving after apparently deciding the current controversies are too much to handle. Not exactly leadership material. Edit: Apparently an unpopular opinion. Do those here think otherwise given he joined the company less than a year ago (and is thus not part of the original culture), but instead could try to repair the damage done by the uber-bro culture instead of looking for an easier paycheck?

Don't you think he tried?

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#39

Post by Anderkent »

ivraatiems wrote: post #32
redm wrote: post #12

The "echo chamber" works both ways. When there is excitement and buzz, it drives startups to success like no where else. Apparently it works in reverse too and people love to see the big kid on the block take hits.

Sorry, this is not just or mainly what's happening here. Every time an anti-Uber article comes up, someone pops in and says something to the effect of your comment, but it simply isn't true. Uber is evil. They do evil things. They should not be supported. Yes, people like to see the titans fall, but people also like to see those who behave poorly get what they deserve for that behavior. That's what's happening here.…

Many items on that list aren't actually bad things, they're just described using language with negative connotations.

For example

>Uber breaks laws all around the world to enrich itself, including allegedly trying to deceive government officials across the world.[4]

Detecting malicious users and protecting drivers by shadowbanning malicious users is neither illegal nor wrong. Uber has no legal nor moral obligation to help the governments entrap its drivers, or perform sting operations. [1]

> It refuses to treat its drivers as true employees, even though legally they are considered such in many jurisdictions, and only complies when faced with court orders.[6][20]

Stupid jurisdiction should not be complied with above direct legal necessity. Treating uber drivers as full time employees hurts both the drivers and the company (why do you think uber driver pay got lower the more 'benefits' uber is required to provide them?).

People shitting on uber always seem to ignore how much public utility it provides in every town it enters. I remember ~10 years ago when I was in Warsaw, coming back from a new years eve party, and I had to walk ~4 hours to get back home because there was no night public transport in that area, and no taxies were available at all. I was in wasaw again 2 years ago, and in the meantime uber has moved in. Getting a drive back on NYE was trivial - maybe we had to wait 20 minutes, and pay ~4 times more than a taxi would have been (but of course there were no taxis available); but split 4 ways it was still a great deal.

There's a reason people choose to use uber; and there's a reason people choose to be uber drivers. And yes, it sucks to be a taxi driver who has bought his way into a monopoly by buying a permit, and now cannot recoup the cost that easily. I wish there was a way to compensate them at a cost of the people who benefited from bringing in license requirements in the first place. But I don't see one, and in the end I believe it's more important to dismantle the broken system.

[1] http://www.valuewalk.com/2017/03/greyball-uber-app/

Re: Uber president Jeff Jones is quitting

#40

Post by Anderkent »

bsg75 wrote: post #21

> He is leaving after apparently deciding the current controversies are too much to handle. Not exactly leadership material. Edit: Apparently an unpopular opinion. Do those here think otherwise given he joined the company less than a year ago (and is thus not part of the original culture), but instead could try to repair the damage done by the uber-bro culture instead of looking for an easier paycheck?

> Apparently an unpopular opinion. Do those here think otherwise given he joined the company less than a year ago (and is thus not part of the original culture), but instead could try to repair the damage done by the uber-bro culture instead of looking for an easier paycheck?

Maybe 'uber-bro culture' is not actually a thing, and he doesn't see a possible solution for the PR problems?

It's really hard to stop the hatetrain.

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