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AlphaGo Is Not AI

spectrum.ieee.org

91–100 of 172 posts

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#91
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AlphaGo played plenty of games online after the Lee Seedol match. It went 60-0 against some of the worlds best players. Granted they were fast games but that's a challenge for AlphaGo as well as its adversaries.

Thank you for this information, it will definitely be interesting to see how the future of Go plays out. For example, will players be able to train with AlphaGo to the point of being able to beat it?

Humans will never defeat the strongest go playing programs ever again. AlphaGo is now clearly ahead of the top pros, and such programs will only get stronger. Humans should learn some things from the machines, but we will definitely not be able to extract the full totality of understanding, and thus will naturally continue to fall behind.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#92
Defining AI is hard - we can agree on that. I think the best definitions are in the form of tests that match the performance against organisms that have developed intelligence through millions of years of evolution. The Turning Test is a good example of this. I think that we can all agree that an AI that passes the Turing Test is intelligent. But that is the final goal post. What about intermediate milestones? My opinion is that games just don't count.

I think that creating similar test as milestones would do more to progress the AI field. Like the Turning Test, it must test that parity with another intelligent being is achieved. Intelligence is a spectrum from "not very" to "omniscient". What are some organisms that are closer to the "not very" end of this spectrum that would be good candidates for parity tests? How would a parity test be performed?

It is in answering that question that one arrives at “There is no AI without robotics”. If you want to demonstrate that your artificial cockroach is as intelligent as the real thing, then you have to build a robot. It doesn't have to be a physical robot as long as you have a simulator that can do a very accurate simulations of the physics of the environment, the AI candidate, and their interactions. That's not so easy, which is why many if not most researchers build physical robots.

Would a cockroach be a good first milestone? Too complex? How about a worm? Achieved parity with cockroach? Then move on to Jumping Spiders. When your great-grandchildren achieve that parity, my great-grandchildren will certainly celebrate with them.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#93
post #71
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, basically the Chinese Room brouhaha all over again...

Just wait, next they'll discover the trolley problem and claim that self-driving vehicles will have to be philosophers.

Tis already happening. http://www.businessinsider.com/self-driving-cars-already-dec...

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#94
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the mind is that what a physical brain does, then a physical brain can in principle be simulated - by crunching numbers - to produce a mind (some have claimed that there must be more to it than that, but none have come up with a generally-accepted justification for their position.)

That's another discussion. The algorithm we're building right now aren't simulateors of consciousness or thought or anything usually attributed to intelligence. They're not even trying to, and the theoretical foundations they're built on aren't theories of consciousness, but pure statistics and signal processing.

True, but it does not follow from them being number-crunching machines; that is not a useful characterization in this context.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#96
post #35

I don't understand the critics this article receive here. It makes a very good counterpoint to all the hype the AI field is living at the moment, letting people from the general audience believe that algorithms will replace humans quite soon. You may think it doesn't matter, but we've candidates to the presidential elections here in france building economical programs assuming "robots will do everything soon, so let'…

If the mind is that what a physical brain does, then a physical brain can in principle be simulated - by crunching numbers - to produce a mind (some have claimed that there must be more to it than that, but none have come up with a generally-accepted justification for their position.)

I don't think the mainstream of pragmatic Machine Learning/AI (deep neural networks, reenforcement learning, etc) is really working toward that goal. However there are some who are trying to create a "software simulation of the biological brain", Numenta being one. I think the limiting factor there is current instrumentation for use in neurological study.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#97
post #79
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It uses intuition to play, which is how humans play, but it does it by considering way more positions that humans.

>It uses intuition to play, Not by the normal definition of intuition. It reasons about millions of moves.

Your intuition is probably based on millions of events happened to you and your ancestor (parts that are developed through evolution and social construct).

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#98
post #2

The piece really makes the only point worth making in the beginning: > What is AI and what is not AI is, to some extent, a matter of definition. It is by the general and widely used definition that AlphaGo is actually an AI. It just happens to solve one very specific problem very well, making it a weak AI. > Again, the rapid advances of deep learning and the recent success of this kind of AI at games like Go are very…

Speaking as an AI researcher, almost nothing is "AI" research. In practice i feel most current AI research falls into two categories: * Fuzzy problems -- image, sound and free text recognition. Where there is no real "true answer". * Problems too hard to solve in a reasonable time without heuristics -- SAT, scheduling, etc. In practice NP-hard problems and further up the complexity heirachy -- AlphaGo goes here. Once…

Agree. Feng-hsiung Hsu, the chief designer of Deep Blue, the chess machine that beat Kasparov, once gave a talk at my university. I didn't go to the talk, but in the abstract, he stated clearly that he didn't think Deep Blue is AI -- it's just a search algorithm.

I don't understand why so many commenters here are so furious about the author's claim that AlphaGo is not AI. What qualifies as AI is really up to definition, and there doesn't seem to be any widely accepted one among AI researchers. The author of the IEEE article doesn't think AlphaGo matches his definition of AI. Other AI researchers may think otherwise. But that doesn't mean the author is trying to dismiss the achievement of the AlphaGo team.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#99
AlphaGo is not AI in exactly the same way that Aldebaran robots are not robots. Seriously, what do those robots do? They are just one step above Disneyland's pre-programmed animatronics. If this dude wants me to take him seriously, he needs to show me a robot that solves a problem for somebody. Nao is just a waste of perfectly good servos. Or, alternatively, if he insists that Nao is a robot, then I think AlphaGo can be considered AI.

People have been saying "___ is not AI" since Claude Shannon built a robot mouse to solve a maze. Then Shannon's chess playing program was "not AI". Humbug.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#100
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this information, it will definitely be interesting to see how the future of Go plays out. For example, will players be able to train with AlphaGo to the point of being able to beat it?

Even more interesting to me is the question of if Go players will be able to apply the novel strategies of AlphaGo which break with decades of conventional wisdom or if there's something in their execution that requires such perfect play (but leads to a more certain outcome) that they're only feasibly played by AlphaGo.

I'm not sure about human players, but it might be possible to build an adversarial neural network that beats AlphaGo (and only AlphaGo).
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