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AlphaGo Is Not AI

spectrum.ieee.org

71–80 of 172 posts

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#71
post #62
post #48

The headline for this piece is clickbait. AlphaGo is AI, it's just not strong AI. No AI is strong AI for the moment, but that doesn't mean that the AI we have is uninteresting or a dead end, as the author seems to think. The author and his editors deliberately conflate the two terms in the headline, and clarify after about a paragraph. Sure, AlphaGo is not strong AI. And Abraham Lincoln is dead. And there are lots of…

So, basically the Chinese Room brouhaha all over again...

Just wait, next they'll discover the trolley problem and claim that self-driving vehicles will have to be philosophers.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#72
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there any research into making a "generic" AI that can solve any problem without the researcher first having to know what that problem is? i.e., human style learning.

Machine learning algorithms can solve many problems without knowing what they really are, only given examples (sometimes even without labels when unsupervised learning applies). We are still quite far from anything we could call "human-style learning" though, but definitely getting there (just look at all the recent publications with reinforcement learning and elaborate ways to use memory in neural nets).

I think the parent is referring less to a system that can construct a single model without an explicit schema, and more to the thing that'd be a few steps after that—the ability to:

1. dynamically notice world-features ("instrumental goal features") that seem to correlate with terminal reward signals;

2. build+train entirely new contextual sub-models in response, that "notice" features relevant to activating the instrumental-goal feature;

3. shape goal-planning in terms of exploiting sub-model features to activate instrumental goals, rather than attempting to achieve terminal preferences directly. (And maybe also in terms of discovering sense-data that is "surprising" to the N most-useful sub-models.)

In other words, the AI should be able to interact with reward-stimuli at least as well as Pavlov's dog.

Right now, ML research does include the concept of "general game-playing" agents—but AFAIK, these agents are only expected to ever play one game per instance of the agent, with the generality being in how the same algorithm can become good at different games when "born into" different environments.

Humans (most animals, really) can become good at far more than a single game, because biological minds seem to build contextual models, that communicate with—but don't interfere with—the functioning of the terminal-preference-trained model.

So: is anyone trying to build an AI that can 1. learn that treats are tasty, and then 2. learn to play an unlimited number of games for treats, at least as well as a not-especially-smart dog?

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#73
post #48

The headline for this piece is clickbait. AlphaGo is AI, it's just not strong AI. No AI is strong AI for the moment, but that doesn't mean that the AI we have is uninteresting or a dead end, as the author seems to think. The author and his editors deliberately conflate the two terms in the headline, and clarify after about a paragraph. Sure, AlphaGo is not strong AI. And Abraham Lincoln is dead. And there are lots of…

Is AlphaGo really what we want to classify as 'intelligence'? It is a calculating engine – one which outperforms humans, to be sure, but no more intelligent than a properly-wielded pocket calculator.

It uses intuition to play, which is how humans play, but it does it by considering way more positions that humans.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#74
While I acccept Alpha Go as 'real AI' (I watched the match with Lee in realtime, and years ago I wrote and marketed my Go playing program 'Honninbo Warrior') I agree that Alpha Go is not a general purpose AI.

Deep learning has been personally career/interests changing, but I still think that we should be building hybrid neural network / symbolic AI systems.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#75
post #48

The headline for this piece is clickbait. AlphaGo is AI, it's just not strong AI. No AI is strong AI for the moment, but that doesn't mean that the AI we have is uninteresting or a dead end, as the author seems to think. The author and his editors deliberately conflate the two terms in the headline, and clarify after about a paragraph. Sure, AlphaGo is not strong AI. And Abraham Lincoln is dead. And there are lots of…

Totally agree, and very happy to see this statement at the top of HN. I'm against hyping up AI or misinterpreting it just as much as the next guy (especially coming from a position where dealing with a lot of higher-management people has made me very wary of articles and vision-pieces from the other end of the spectrum that are all like "invest now in AI or lose it all"), but this is just clickbait for the sake of en…

I wouldn't say the challenge has been "solved" - the system may have only been able to win consistently because the programmers made adjustments and improvements to it between each game. Fitting its heuristics to a specific opponent might actually be overfitting unless it can consistently win against all challengers without being modified between rounds. [edited to clarify uncertainty about "why" it was able to win]

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#76
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as an AI researcher, almost nothing is "AI" research. In practice i feel most current AI research falls into two categories: * Fuzzy problems -- image, sound and free text recognition. Where there is no real "true answer". * Problems too hard to solve in a reasonable time without heuristics -- SAT, scheduling, etc. In practice NP-hard problems and further up the complexity heirachy -- AlphaGo goes here. Once…

is there any research into making a "generic" AI that can solve any problem without the researcher first having to know what that problem is? i.e., human style learning.

Not entirely sure that is a fair description of human-style learning. Our overall problem to solve is 'survive and reproduce'. Anything else can be seen as just a sub-problem of that. Humans are taught by other humans how to solve problems since the day they are born. Our DNA passes on a millions of generations worth of learning from our ancestors about how to solve problems.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree, and very happy to see this statement at the top of HN. I'm against hyping up AI or misinterpreting it just as much as the next guy (especially coming from a position where dealing with a lot of higher-management people has made me very wary of articles and vision-pieces from the other end of the spectrum that are all like "invest now in AI or lose it all"), but this is just clickbait for the sake of en…

I wouldn't say the challenge has been "solved" - the system may have only been able to win consistently because the programmers made adjustments and improvements to it between each game. Fitting its heuristics to a specific opponent might actually be overfitting unless it can consistently win against all challengers without being modified between rounds. [edited to clarify uncertainty about "why" it was able to win]

AlphaGo played plenty of games online after the Lee Seedol match. It went 60-0 against some of the worlds best players. Granted they were fast games but that's a challenge for AlphaGo as well as its adversaries.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#79
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is AlphaGo really what we want to classify as 'intelligence'? It is a calculating engine – one which outperforms humans, to be sure, but no more intelligent than a properly-wielded pocket calculator.

It uses intuition to play, which is how humans play, but it does it by considering way more positions that humans.

>It uses intuition to play,

Not by the normal definition of intuition. It reasons about millions of moves.

Re: AlphaGo Is Not AI

#80
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is AlphaGo really what we want to classify as 'intelligence'? It is a calculating engine – one which outperforms humans, to be sure, but no more intelligent than a properly-wielded pocket calculator.

It uses intuition to play, which is how humans play, but it does it by considering way more positions that humans.

Not only does it use a form of intuition, but it's an intuition that it's developed itself, rather than just copying others. Professional Go players are learning from the creative strategies of AlphaGo and if that doesn't imply some level of weak intelligence then I'm not sure why anyone talks about a weak/strong AI divide to begin with.

Like Scott Aaronson said, "You can look at any of these examples -- Deep Blue, the Robbins conjecture, Google -- and say, that's not really AI. That's just massive search, helped along by clever programming. Now, this kind of talk drives AI researchers up a wall. They say: if you told someone in the sixties that in 30 years we'd be able to beat the world grandmaster at chess, and asked if that would count as AI, they'd say, of course it's AI! But now that we know how to do it, now it's no longer AI. Now it's just search."

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