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Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

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Re: Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#51

Post by golergka »

etjossem wrote: post #45
golergka wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's kind of ironic that you mention how his charity isn't 100% altruistic, but then juxtapose it with "social safety nets" - by which, I assume, you mean tax-funded welfare, which is forced on people by government and has nothing altruistic about it on any level.

Actual altruism is very rare. The level at which it exists in the United States is nowhere near sufficient to solve this country's homelessness problem. By all means, write inspiring news stories about pure generosity when it appears, but this is not one of those times. This is a man who looks at our collective unwillingness to help our most needy and sees a religious opportunity. Some voters support safety nets out…

> Some voters support safety nets out of a sense of altruism.

It cannot be called altruism. People you're referring to aren't giving their resources out of free will - they support government taking other people's resources, under threat of violence (which the government has monopoly on) and redistributing it to others.

> housing as a fundamental human right

How can a product of someone else's labour can be a human right?

Re: Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#52

Post by Shivetya »

golergka wrote: post #44
etjossem wrote: post #38

Acts of charity like this have always struck me as creating an uncomfortable power dynamic. When sticking around to hear a religious presentation is the price of admission, it's not a pure form of generosity; it's transactional. Ron Powers even mentions the captive audience situation outright, near the end of the video. "If you have something like their clothes, you've got them for an hour, two hours ... we might as…

I think it's kind of ironic that you mention how his charity isn't 100% altruistic, but then juxtapose it with "social safety nets" - by which, I assume, you mean tax-funded welfare, which is forced on people by government and has nothing altruistic about it on any level.

well people are very generous with the money of other people.

i have had more than automatic monthly donation to charities yet I am always disappointed when I run into people who think it is the government's job. giving and helping others is everyone's job. we would not need the government to do it if we all gave up that lame excuse

Re: Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#53

Post by grandDesigns »

Many people who think he is doing a great thing would immediately change their mind if I told you that he was proselytizing for Allah.

What if he just wanted to talk to them about Amway for a while? would you be OK with that?

What if he was talking Scientology?

What if he was talking Malboro?

If you are being honest with yourself, you have to agree he is merely running a business. They give him their time, he gets God points.

Re: Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#54

Post by literallycancer »

golergka wrote: post #51
etjossem wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual altruism is very rare. The level at which it exists in the United States is nowhere near sufficient to solve this country's homelessness problem. By all means, write inspiring news stories about pure generosity when it appears, but this is not one of those times. This is a man who looks at our collective unwillingness to help our most needy and sees a religious opportunity. Some voters support safety nets out…

> Some voters support safety nets out of a sense of altruism. It cannot be called altruism. People you're referring to aren't giving their resources out of free will - they support government taking other people's resources, under threat of violence (which the government has monopoly on) and redistributing it to others. > housing as a fundamental human right How can a product of someone else's labour can be a human r…

>How can a product of someone else's labour can be a human right?

Quite easily. Access to clean water isn't free, nor is safety or freedom (of religion, to own property, whatever). Enough people agree that these are a human right, so they are financed by the collective, regardless of how much the recipient contributed by paying taxes.

Re: Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#55

Post by kapauldo »

dang wrote: post #14
kapauldo wrote: post #7

God is not real but I applaud the guy for helping people.

Please don't do religious flamewars on HN. Whether or not God is real, that circle of internet hell is, and we don't go there here.

Its fair game because the charitable work being reported on is imbued with self elevating religious reference. I simply separated the kind part from the irrational part.

Re: Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#56

Post by paulddraper »

grandDesigns wrote: post #53

Many people who think he is doing a great thing would immediately change their mind if I told you that he was proselytizing for Allah. What if he just wanted to talk to them about Amway for a while? would you be OK with that? What if he was talking Scientology? What if he was talking Malboro? If you are being honest with yourself, you have to agree he is merely running a business. They give him their time, he gets Go…

Amway and Malboro are for-profit businesses. The others aren't.

Re: Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#57

Post by battlebot »

literallycancer wrote: post #54
golergka wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some voters support safety nets out of a sense of altruism. It cannot be called altruism. People you're referring to aren't giving their resources out of free will - they support government taking other people's resources, under threat of violence (which the government has monopoly on) and redistributing it to others. > housing as a fundamental human right How can a product of someone else's labour can be a human r…

>How can a product of someone else's labour can be a human right? Quite easily. Access to clean water isn't free, nor is safety or freedom (of religion, to own property, whatever). Enough people agree that these are a human right, so they are financed by the collective, regardless of how much the recipient contributed by paying taxes.

Paying taxes into a government system is different than saying something is a "human right." I think the idea that goods and services of any kind are a human right are a slippery slope. You can't just declare a right to the output of someone else's labors. It may feel good to do so, but it is unethical.

Re: Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#58

Post by battlebot »

etjossem wrote: post #43
dvt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a one-way conversation. Even if this were true, so what? My argument has nothing to do with the merits of any belief or how set anyone is in said beliefs, there's no need to move the goalpost. I ask again: what is wrong with someone feeding a poor and destitute person and then handing them a Bible or a Quran or saying a prayer? Your only argument is that they might have an alterior motive. But I would counter…

There's nothing wrong with charitable work on the part of religious groups, but the fact that they are able to get something out of the situation is a symptom of a larger problem. Food, clean clothes, and a place to sleep are fundamental human rights. When folks don't have access to these things, we have to ask ourselves where we went wrong - as voters and engaged citizens, that's on us. In an ideal world, we would a…

None of what you listed as human rights are in fact human rights. Being treated with dignity may be a human right, but getting free shit from others who produce is not, nor has it ever been, a legitimate right. No one has the the right to encumber the labors of another. We have seen the dire outcome to that way of thinking time and time again over human history and it never ends well. Currently Venezuela is going through a collapse due to that way of thinking about property rights. It's a road to nowhere.

That doesn't mean we can't be charitable to one another, but the idea that some stranger has a right to the results of your hard work? Insanity. That we are taxed to death in the west in order to try and create such a system is also insanity and is bleeding dry the real system of prosperity which is based on individualism and free enterprise. You want more homeless? Keep up that humans rights bs.

Lastly, it is magical thinking to believe we can solve the problem of homelessness. Some people choose to be impossible to help. Many homeless have options that they don't pursue due either to ignorance, substance abuse, treatable mental illness, or whatever else. It is an enormously complex issue. For those who want to be helped, there are programs, many of which are taxpayer funded. It's not like they can't get help, but most just stubbornly want to be drunk and hopeless. I have seen this firsthand.

Also, many are outright criminals, or former criminals who committed horrible crimes against others. I have extremely little sympathy for criminal individuals and they certainly merit no free food, clothes, nor anything else.

Re: Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#59

Post by dang »

kapauldo wrote: post #55
dang wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't do religious flamewars on HN. Whether or not God is real, that circle of internet hell is, and we don't go there here.

Its fair game because the charitable work being reported on is imbued with self elevating religious reference. I simply separated the kind part from the irrational part.

That's not the standard that applies here. The standard that applies here is that you can't do religious flamewars.

Re: Engineer Converts Van into Laundromat, Offers Free Loads to Homeless

#60

Post by dvt »

alkonaut wrote: post #47
dvt wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He literally says that his goal is not conversions and that he's doing it because he realized he wasn't putting his faith into action. Further, even if he was trying to convert people, what's so bad about that? "Hi, let me help you and by the way here's what I believe and why I'm doing what I'm doing." -- no idea why that kind of train of thought can rationally be looked down upon. I've always failed to see why athei…

If someone drove around in a van and offered conversation to homeless people with a christian angle - that would be great. It's also great if someone offers laundry service. Talking to people is great. Talking about religion must be on their terms, otherwise it's preaching or being a missionary - which isn't. What disturbs me is the idea of people have to feel even a little pressure to participate in his prayers or r…

> If you are serious about charity then don't preach. Even if being charitable is part of acting out your own faith, separate the two.

I don't really follow. If they are being charitable because of their faith, why separate the two? It's an integral part of their identity and why they do what they do.

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