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The 10,000-hour rule is wrong and perpetuates a cruel myth

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Re: The 10,000-hour rule is wrong and perpetuates a cruel myth

#121
post #101
post #39

Assumes Correlation and Causation, ignores Social and Economic situations of the twins groups, doesn't account for the fact that identical twins tend to share (being geared towards) more experiences due to being perceived almost as a single "being", ignores cultural differences in upbringing of different-gender twins, doesn't account for indirect training (i.e. strategy, memorization, sequential steps etc. are parts…

Finger length is relevant factor in piano play. Most people dont hear soinds as well as pro-musicians, our ears webe born less good. That would be talent. More generally, fine motor skills are simply not equal between children even when the kid tries hard. The importance of right genes is pretty clear when you look at sports. Different sports favor different body types and if you don't have one, you won't suceed.

Not sure what it's called in English, but there's perfect/absolute hearing, in which a person somehow knows the actual frequency of a note.

I know a couple musicians that have it, one of them lost it in an accident, both studied a lot, and most musicians I know, including some of the most successful ones, don't have this.

It's a good point, but empirically not verifiable, musicians train to identify intervals (Even the ones with perfect hearing), and in a similar discussion in class when I studied for a music degree, the only things the class disagreed were the impact of perfect hearing in the likelihood of becoming a musician, and that there may be some innate ability to maintain rhythm. On everything else we were unanimous in believing there is no such thing as talent.

Now you're free to believe differently, still, people that you think have "talent" will mostly be offended and feel that their hard work is not being recognized. Phelps isn't amazing BECAUSE of his body. His body is just a very small part of what makes him awesome, and though maybe a bit less awesome, he could still be awesome with a different body.

Re: The 10,000-hour rule is wrong and perpetuates a cruel myth

#122
post #39

Assumes Correlation and Causation, ignores Social and Economic situations of the twins groups, doesn't account for the fact that identical twins tend to share (being geared towards) more experiences due to being perceived almost as a single "being", ignores cultural differences in upbringing of different-gender twins, doesn't account for indirect training (i.e. strategy, memorization, sequential steps etc. are parts…

I've got over a decade of deliberate and intense study and practice in programming. I love it and I love learning new things about it. I've worked in half a dozen professional languages and over a dozen for fun. I give conference talks and have two books out. And yet several people I work with can absolutely run circles around me due to much better long and short term memory. For every hour I put in, they can get far…

And you probably run circles around a lot of people. If anybody said you were gifted it would be a lie, it's the result of dedication. I've never seen anyone say "I have talent", and I've been to music and computer science colleges. I've seen a lot of people saying that other people have talent though.

But my point is not that everyone faces the same hardships, is just that those hardships or lack thereof are not genetic but acquired, probably mostly during early childhood but I'm not a psychologist so I don't know.

I just think we shouldn't dismiss achievements as a result of just talent (or luck). Luck actually plays a role, as well as many other things (As I said, economic and social situations and a lot more).

We just need to be sceptical of linking stuff to genes, humans are not so simple. There are many other factors at play, and even if we can't change ourselves, we may be able to raise our kids better by considering these subtleties and their possible impact.

Plus those "geniuses" love when people acknowledge their hard work, try talking to them about it. I find the amount of effort some people put into their craft to be staggering.

Re: The 10,000-hour rule is wrong and perpetuates a cruel myth

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, there is no talent, ask any great programmer, musician, illustrator or whatever, every single one of them will say he/she was shitty, but loved it, so kept doing it. This doesn't completely discards the possibility of genetic disposition to liking something, but undeniably everyone starts on even ground. Yes, technically, no one is born knowing trig or calculus, but the people with genetic gifts make the trans…

> it cannot possibly be explained by parenting or practice, because these children are so young and otherwise are very homogeneous I disagree; parenting during the earliest years makes a huge difference. By the time they get to elementary school, some parents have been reading to their kids and some haven't, some parents gave their kids more educationally incline toys and some didn't, and some kids, whether by parent…

One of my points. Hard (And dangerous) to pin things on genes with so many factors at play.

Re: The 10,000-hour rule is wrong and perpetuates a cruel myth

#124
post #54
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with anything in the real world there is always a "yes but" and "it depends". 10k hours succeeded because it is generally the right idea. It's not a mathematical rule. Some common sense is still required. You can't stop people interpreting it to hear only what they want to hear.

If people would actual read the book Peak they'd understand that it isn't even about those 10k hours. What Ericsson says is that what creates peak performance is studying just beyond the edge of your comfort zone with (as much) personal feedback (as possible) from an experienced mentor; so not just playing around a bit by yourself. For quite a few fields 'expert' levels happen to come down to about 10k hours of such…

I have used these techniques, and more, to become highly proficient in making gourmet Peanut Butter and Jelly sandwiches in under 4 hrs. I had no talent other than these techniques and taste buds.
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