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Omnispeak – A Commander Keen Reimplementation
31–40 of 57 posts
Re: Omnispeak – A Commander Keen Reimplementation
#32I'm sorry if I seem a little obtuse here, but... why? If you need the files from the actual game, and the actual game comes with the tools to run it (i.e. DOSBox), what is the benefit, or in fact the real purpose, of this project as-is?
To quote Mark Zuckerberg (about Hollywood and "The Social Network"):
"They just can't wrap their head around the fact that someone might build something because they like building things."
Re: Omnispeak – A Commander Keen Reimplementation
#33How does the copyright work with a Re-implementation?
The dev is just re-implementing the game engine. I think the Ep4 game files only included because it was a shareware release. Still, I'm not entirely sure what the legal ground for the engine here is. It goes back to the whole issue with formats like mp3s/H264 (If you write a decoder entirely from scratch; do you still have to pay party x?)
While it's (obviously) not a full endorsement from a legal standpoint, Carmack retweeted his announcement.
Re: Omnispeak – A Commander Keen Reimplementation
#34Re: Omnispeak – A Commander Keen Reimplementation
#35How does the copyright work with a Re-implementation?
Partly, I think it matters where the information for the implementation came from. Clean-room reverse engineering would be the safest (one team disassembles the binaries and writes a spec for their behavior, a completely separate team implements an engine from the spec, having never seen any aspect of the original code). The more chance you give someone to claim that your work is directly derived from theirs, the bet…
In this case it wouldn't really matter. From a copyright perspective, he might as well as copy the source code line for line. Wouldn't matter if the guy created it on a desert island having never heard of the original game and claimed it all a coincidence. It still infringes the copyright in the character, story, graphics, etc. But if the game is shareware or the code is, then it's fair game.
Just like I can't reverse engineer a Harry Potter novel from watching the movies and claim immunity from copyright.
People using cleanrooms are not worried about copyright, they're worried (primarily) about violating NDAs or license agreements. They have to prove that the engineers figured out everything on their own. Especially important when the thing you're copying is from a company that you may have had NDAs or license agreements with in the past. Or employ engineers who may have worked at the competitor and have trade secret knowledge in their head. You may end up with similarities of implementation, but have the clean room logs to back up your story. Even a clean room won't protect you from patent infringement if you end up with an infringing technology.
Re: Omnispeak – A Commander Keen Reimplementation
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Partly, I think it matters where the information for the implementation came from. Clean-room reverse engineering would be the safest (one team disassembles the binaries and writes a spec for their behavior, a completely separate team implements an engine from the spec, having never seen any aspect of the original code). The more chance you give someone to claim that your work is directly derived from theirs, the bet…
In this case it wouldn't really matter. From a copyright perspective, he might as well as copy the source code line for line. Wouldn't matter if the guy created it on a desert island having never heard of the original game and claimed it all a coincidence. It still infringes the copyright in the character, story, graphics, etc. But if the game is shareware or the code is, then it's fair game. Just like I can't revers…
> It still infringes the copyright in the character, story, graphics, etc. But if the game is shareware or the code is, then it's fair game.
What? No, I'm talking about the engine, not any of the art/text/music. I'm assuming that someone would purchase the game and basically replace the main program binary; the replacement engine would use the original, copyrighted game assets, but would never be distributed along with the engine.
> Even a clean room won't protect you from patent infringement if you end up with an infringing technology.
That ought to be safe, with the game that the post is about.
Re: Omnispeak – A Commander Keen Reimplementation
#37Oh man, I loved the keen games. As a young lad in the UK, it always frustrated me how hard buying the full version of shareware software was - the buy screens always had US address/phone numbers for purchasing, and back in the early 90s convincing one's parents of the legitimacy of such a weird foreign transaction was no easy task. I think I eventually managed to get floppies with the full versions of most of Apogee'…
Ha, True! The strangest thing was that you could often buy games on floppies at the stores but they were almost always shareware, with just a single level to play. Never did we get original games, at least, not in the stores. Floppies were traded like crazy, legal games just didn't seem to be available back then. (At least here in the Netherlands, in the early 90's)
Re: Omnispeak – A Commander Keen Reimplementation
#38Even though the second Keen trilogy had richer graphics, I really loved the first Keen trilogy for the gameplay. The jumps and movement felt so much more physical. Keen would make this tiny pause as if winding up for a jump each time he jumped. The later Keen just did big floaty isometric jumps that didn't have the same snap. That said, I loved and played every single one of those games.
I absolutely hated the pause when I was a kid. Nintendo got it right; there should be immediate feedback from pushing a button.
Re: Omnispeak – A Commander Keen Reimplementation
#39Even though the second Keen trilogy had richer graphics, I really loved the first Keen trilogy for the gameplay. The jumps and movement felt so much more physical. Keen would make this tiny pause as if winding up for a jump each time he jumped. The later Keen just did big floaty isometric jumps that didn't have the same snap. That said, I loved and played every single one of those games.
I found that jump mechanic very frustrating, but mostly because I could never time it perfectly!
Re: Omnispeak – A Commander Keen Reimplementation
#40Oh man, I loved the keen games. As a young lad in the UK, it always frustrated me how hard buying the full version of shareware software was - the buy screens always had US address/phone numbers for purchasing, and back in the early 90s convincing one's parents of the legitimacy of such a weird foreign transaction was no easy task. I think I eventually managed to get floppies with the full versions of most of Apogee'…
Even worse in South Africa! I only got to play the shareware versions as a kid from floppies included with (I think) Computer Shopper magazines, which my dad used to buy.