Earlier quoted context omitted.
re: illegal immigrants prone to crime It is tough to find accurate stats, because the cities with the largest numbers of illegals immigrants, are also the ones that don't check immigration status. You can't know it if you don't track it... https://www.city-journal.org/html/illegal-alien-crime-wave-1... However, even the studies from places that tend to being "pro-immigration" backhandedly admit that of an estimated p…
> Concerning your more specific question of "will the wall work" That's not my question. My question is "What are we getting for the money?" Again, you seem to be suggesting "lower crime". I disagree, but let's play devil's advocate: how much lower do you think crime would be? Now divide that by the cost of the wall. That's your "per unit cost of lowering crime with a wall". What's the answer? > my view would be "we…
Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
681–690 of 701 posts
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#682One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.
Yes,all the immigrants I know are hard-working people, more so on average than people born and raised here. "Are you willing to go through the current immigration process?" Seems to do a pretty good job of selecting productive individuals already. As an aside, this is probably my last post on HN, reading the xenophobic and likely astro-turfed replies to this and other threads has really reduced the value of HN commen…
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#683Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're in denial, the evidence is staring you in the face, you're just not concerned. That's your prerogative, but you're probably not one of those who are going to be hurt by Bannon's misguided nationalism. As for H1-Bs, the reason Google, Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Microsoft, et al, hire them is not to lock in slaves at low wages who can't leave. Yes, there are companies that do this, but the reality is, tech compani…
> I could not find the quote from Bannon or Miller saying that "Camp of the Saints is my favourite novel"? Where can I find this? >> You're in denial, the evidence is staring you in the face, you're just not concerned. That's your prerogative, but you're probably not one of those who are going to be hurt by Bannon's misguided nationalism. Its a book he has read. That is all. Fake news and false outrage. > What I find…
Either-or fallacy. Keeping foreign born Phds out doesn't help us, and doesn't help create more native American Phds. We could strengthen our education system and education culture without Affirmative Action for White Males By Banning Foreigners.
You know, Clinton and Sanders supported policies that would have helped, by dramatically reducing the cost of college. Upper level advanced degrees are a filter/pipeline issue, and the more people in 2-year and 4-year programs, the greater number who might advance to graduate level.
The reason there are so many foreign Phds is that they often completed (free) 4-year programs in their home country, and go abroad for graduate degrees. My wife completed her masters degree in China, then came here and got a second masters degree.
What I hear you saying is "if only we banned these foreigners, maybe our native born people would have a chance in Phd programs". And what I interpret that to mean is "Let's not spend $80 billion on free college for everyone who wants it, because that would be 'big gubmint socialism', instead everything will work out if we just institute protectionism immigration policies."
I say, let's continue to drain the smartest people in the world to our shores and educate our own as well.
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#684Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), Having lived on the east side of Berlin (post Wall!) I cannot forget that that wall was supposedly built to keep people out but of course it kept people in . I am Australian, and I have to admit the points based system does work there...but. I have lived longest in the USA where the chaos has been beneficial for the country, and thus for me. Aus…
Well, I am inclined to like creative destruction and open borders too. But Australia and the US are democracies -- they are ruled by the people, most of whom seem to like a bit more orderliness. Now if the democratic process is producing something like the White Australia Policy[1] then we have cause to cry out our moral censure from the rooftops. But whatever your view on the current points system, that's just a pol…
Second, I don't accept any non-democratic policy passed by any supposedly democratic system as democratic. No matter the majority it has been enacted by. For me, discrimination by race is by itself against the values necessary for sustained democracy, and as such, not subject to majority approval.
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#685Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes I'm an old fart, born in the (fortunately waning) days of WAP. When I first visited the US, we landed at D.C. and drove north, because to drive south would have meant we would have to split up the family to stay in different hotels. Still, it seemed less racist than Australia. Nowadays, both have improved but I feel like the positions have reversed. Then again, I don't think America throws kids off navy ships int…
> Then again, I don't think America throws kids off navy ships into the water. When did Australia do that? The claim was that the refugeees threw the kids overboard in order to get a rescue, not that the navy threw them overboard themselves for a photo op. The scandal was about the government lying about refugee actions, not that the navy was drowning kids. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_Overboard_affair
By the way, often the only alternative to self-scuttling their ships, for the refugees, is to let their ships be turned around and maybe never reach another shore for lack of navigation skills, water or fuel.
That comment certainly was a bit hyperbolic, but not that far from the actual truth.
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#686Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#687Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes,all the immigrants I know are hard-working people, more so on average than people born and raised here. "Are you willing to go through the current immigration process?" Seems to do a pretty good job of selecting productive individuals already. As an aside, this is probably my last post on HN, reading the xenophobic and likely astro-turfed replies to this and other threads has really reduced the value of HN commen…
I too am shocked how HN is taking a hard turn to the authoritarian side. "lega" "legal" "legal" "is it legal" "but they're illegal" geeze. I live in a country where it used to be illegal to know how to tune your radio to western frequencies and emigrating could get your familly sent to a workcamp. Now the west is talking about legality as if it were the holy grail. WTF?
There is nothing wrong with having rules who can live in your country. I'm not an American and live in poor country, but I totally support common sense what nowadays is considered xenophobic.
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#688Earlier quoted context omitted.
You do understand that the implication of your argument is that those people who come to US should be, effectively, forced to stay in their countries of birth, and work for their benefit? You talk in terms of benefits and drawbacks for societies collectively. What about benefits and drawbacks for individuals? A person who is coming from, say, India to US is doing so because they want to, not because they're forced to…
> A person who is coming from, say, India to US is doing so because they want to, not because they're forced to. If you deprive them of that ability and that choice, you're harming them - specifically, you're restricting their individual natural right to freedom of association and to pursuit of happiness. Here's a question for you: Can the US absorb all 1.3 billion people in India? Then how about another billion from…
But that is a completely different argument from "we won't let you in, because we want you to work for the benefit of the country from which you come" that you've been making. In a system with a screen, it's still the individual's choice to decide to immigrate or not, and to try to get past that screening - or to shop around for various places and pick one which is more likely to be acceptable given the skills they have, or that are feasible for them to acquire (e.g. if you can and are willing to learn French, Quebec might be an interesting option).
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#689Earlier quoted context omitted.
I see. I apologize that my logic in support of open borders and extending the american jobs economy to immigrants has been construed as a Trump-esque attitude of "screw the [...] middle of the country" For what it's worth, I am not on either side of an aisle, and am so disconnected from media that I have no idea how my perspective is in any way correlated to Trump's antithetical closed-borders policy. Please forgive…
To be clear, I'm not personally opposed to open borders. I'm responding to this line "that effect is only negative from the specific perspective of low end salary holders." which as a statement is deeply lacking in empathy for the fact that MILLIONS of people in this country are "low end salary holders" who are negatively impacted by the labor competition that open borders brings. This doesn't mean that open borders…
Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups
#690Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason why the difference is so big is only partially because family immigration is less extensive in those countries. The bigger part is that US doesn't have a well designed skilled immigration track, while those other countries do. Most skilled immigrants come to US via H-1B or L-1, neither of which were originally designed for that purpose. Because H-1B specifically has an elaborate quota system, the number of…
> So larger number of immigrants overall What is the rationale behind this? Or how will this benefit existing citizens? Where do you draw the line for a cap on immigration, and why? There is an almost infinite number of people who want to come to the US. Decisions must be made fairly and consistently, and to the benefit of the standard of living of existing citizens. H1-B = 236K applicants / 85K spots So that is ~150…
There was no rationale. You keep pointing at Australia etc as a desirable model, and I told you what you'd need to do to make your system more like those countries, and what the result of that would be.
In particular, those countries don't have quotas on skilled immigration. Well, not explicit ones - any point system establishes an inherent limit.
> I would say the first priority is to ensure this system is not being used to drive down wages, and not being used to abuse migrants.
I don't think there are many people who would disagree with you. As an ex-H1B, I don't see anything objectionable about the changes presented so far (and if I still were an H1B, I'd actually benefit from them).
Here are some nice charts here about who's using the system, and how:
https://www.axios.com/h1-b-salaries-2228205505.html
Note that what these numbers clearly tell is that it's not Google, Microsoft, Facebook etc that are a problem wrt wages. It's Tata, Infosys and similar sweat shops. Those are also the ones who get most of the H1B visa quota. Ironically, they're also the ones using H1B as a true temp worker visa - they rarely sponsor their employees for green cards.
In contrast, for most major tech company workers, H1B is a vehicle to green card and citizenship, and the companies themselves do encourage that, sponsoring employees and paying all filing and legal fees, because they are interested in retaining those workers long-term (and are paying well enough that they're not concerned that people would leave once they're no longer legally bound to the company).
So, imposing more stringent lower limits on wages would benefit the Googles of the world at the expense of Tatas, and would benefit people using H1B as immigration vehicle over temp workers.
> Family-based immigration must be done in a way to ensure that we are not creating greater demands on the economy. They should be able to support themselves and not contribute to the decrease in participation rate, and increasing unemployment.
Strictly speaking, family-based immigration already has such requirements. The sponsor must not only demonstrate sufficient minimum income to provide for the person they're sponsoring, but they're also required to sign a legally enforceable pledge making them financially liable for support of that person:
https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-processes-and-pr...
This remains in force until that person becomes a citizen, which would be at least 5 years after getting green card in most cases (you need 5 years of permanent residency to apply for citizenship normally; 3 if you're married to a citizen).
This all is very similar to Canada.
> This says that there should have some kind of entrepreneurial visa.
There are visas for investors, but they require considerable sums of money upfront. I don't think there's anything for people who are not self-funded in that manner, which likely accounts for most of the startups.