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Scotland to seek second independence referendum

bbc.com

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Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#321

Post by rmc »

pjc50 wrote: post #213
sambeau wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have but that would have made things very confusing: I feel 100% British. My immediate family is scattered around the UK our forefathers were scattered throughout the British Isles—one half of the family was Irish. Even my English parents have Scottish blood somewhere down the line. Even worse for me, I'm an internationalist and I felt very proud to be part of the EU for many of the same reasons I felt proud…

> built on mutualism Was it? I mean, that's how it's taught in schools, but how well does that reflect the actual history? Certainly it doesn't represent the UK's history with Ireland, which really isn't taught in schools. That's how people like Melanie "wrong about everything all of the time" Phillips can write national newspaper articles in which Ireland has a "tenuous claim to nationhood". This is kind of the prob…

> I mean, that's how it's taught in schools, but how well does that reflect the actual history? Certainly it doesn't represent the UK's history with Ireland, which really isn't taught in schools.

How it's taught in schools in UK/England perhaps. In Ireland the history class is all about how England is a horrible oppressor of Ireland. ;)

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#322

Post by rmc »

maze-le wrote: post #207
sambeau wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Total collapse of the UK is looking quite possible. - Scotland is likely to go (despite what the polls say right now) - Northern Ireland is quite likely to join Ireland - God knows what Wales is going to do

Northern Ireland is a very tricky issue. Despite the majority in vote against Brexit, there is an almost 50/50 divide between pro-british unionists and pro-irish nationalists. As far as I understand it, the government in Belfast has been a close cooperation between both sides since 1998. If that cooperation breaks down no one knows what is about to happen, but many fear that the violence of the 'Troubles' might retur…

Exactly. Scotland doesn't have as much die-hard "unionists" as NI does.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#323

Post by rmc »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #91
byefruit wrote: post #6

What a legacy Cameron has left. Alienation of our nearest neighbours and the likely dissolution of the Union. It's also looking likely that Brexit will cause problems for the Northern Ireland peace arrangement.

>> It's also looking likely that Brexit will cause problems for the Northern Ireland peace arrangement. This is the first time I've felt a border poll in Northern Ireland is a possibility. The recent election resulted in a huge swing in power and a hard border with the south would be devastating for a lot of people regardless of political persuasion. It'll be interesting to see how each part of the UK ends up in 5-10…

There were some local political scandals ("cash for ash") in NI which could have also changed the polling results.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#324

Post by rmc »

timthelion wrote: post #140
falsedan wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is SNP racist? Some people see the SNP's strong desire to separate from Westminster as anti-English.

Oh the poor English :( technically that would be sectarian and not racist, as both Scotts and English bellong to the same race.

Most anti-racism law (incl UK anti-racism law from the 1960s) defines racism as also being based on ethnicity, or national original.

So, yes, under the UK anti-racism law, it would count as racism.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#325

Post by alistairSH »

restalis wrote: post #293
Symbiote wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't need any extra knowledge, assuming people know Washington DC is in the USA. They're no worse off than if he says "the USA". I often say "London". I don't like saying "England", I consider the whole UK to by my country, but "United Kingdom" or even "Britain" are often not understood, and in any case, "which city?" is almost always the next question. There are exceptions. If I'm introducing myself to someone…

It happened to me quite a lot to introduce foreign clients to local acquaintances that haven't traveled abroad and don't have much knowledge (or interest) about outside world. Yeah, they heard of Washington (DC), alright, but haven't heard of SF and that caused a scene to my local pals with them being clearly unaware of where that place was and also being a little embarrassed to ask more. US citizens are not the only…

It's at least a bit dependent on who is asking. I would expect somebody from Western Europe, Australia, etc to know Washington DC and SF (and London, Manchester, Frankfurt, etc).

I wouldn't have the same expectation of somebody from Asia. Not only is language a possible problem, but there are a TON of large cities in China (and other parts of Asia) I know nothing about.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#326

Post by sambeau »

daleharvey wrote: post #180
sambeau wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm a child of English parents who was born in Wales but grew up in Scotland. I have Scottish and English children, in-laws and cousins. I have a family home in Scotland but I currently live in England. My children live in England and Scotland. Some of us live in Italy. What a fucking mess of a total fucking disaster. None of this needed to happen and it's a total nightmare for me and my family. If this g…

As a Scot I will be voting for independence in the spirit that you and your family will be welcome to live and work in Scotland, not certain what the claim to passports will be but if half of England qualifies then all the better (not really sure we if we wouldnt want the entire of England to qualify). As for the economics I am not too worried. A 15bn shortfall sounds exaggerated but hey given the worse case Trident…

Scotland's contribution to Trident is ~£200m per year.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#327

Post by sambeau »

Gravityloss wrote: post #273
smcl wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True but that's been known for a while - and afaik there hasn't been a definitive "oil will run out in 20xx" answer. Main thing hurting right now is the global slump in oil price hammering the North East - to be fair all of this does suggest that Scotland needs to focus on diversifying into renewables and tech but that was always the plan. It's just kinda irritating that this has come up now as it's a convenient stic…

I'm just thinking if you count the subsidies as coming from Britain to Scotland but not the oil being pumped from Scotland and sent to Britain? How would the borders go in case of separation? Seems Scotland has only one refinery, and it's half owned by a Chinese company.

All current economic statistics about Scotland are baed on origin. Anything made in Scotland is counted as part of Scottish economy, even if it travels to England to be exported—that is counted as a Scottish export even though it left via an English port.

The difference after independence would be that the export would occur at Carlisle rather than Felixstowe.

Most of the "Thatcherism effect" of the 19080s can be directly attributed to North Sea oil. If you remove that money from the economy Thatcherism was a contraction until the banks boomed (though that was mostly post-Thatcher).

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