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Confessions of a Watch Geek

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Re: Confessions of a Watch Geek

#41

Post by blacksmith_tb »

gingerbread-man wrote: post #19
loydb wrote: post #12

I love that Nomos was featured heavily. I don't own one yet, but they are for sure my favorite manufacturer.

You might like Habring2 as well. The founder invented a novel mechanism now used in split-second chronographs. Their watches are mechanically amazing, and (relatively) cheap, because they focus more on mechanical refinement than aesthetic perfection of the internals.

Habring2 are likable, but not what I'd call 'relatively' cheap, as none of their models are less than $4000 USD. For people who are interested in modestly-priced mechanical watches, I would suggest Seiko, especially some of their models intended for the Japanese Domestic Market, many of which are less than $500 USD. They have very good quality throughout, though the aesthetics vary (I like some of their divers quite a bit).

Re: Confessions of a Watch Geek

#42

Post by semi-extrinsic »

hanklazard wrote: post #34
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, the Chinese replica market buys essentially all their movements as genuine goods from Japanese manufacturers like Seiko. The movements (i.e. the really complicated parts to make) for expensive quartz watches cost less than $50. So the Chinese don't have to replicate the tricky part, they just have to build a mechanical case from mineral or sapphire glass and stainless steel that's pressure tight t…

Hmm, that's not my understanding. Most higher-end replicas use "Asian" ETA clones (ie A2824 and others). The manufacturers have copied ETA parts over the years and now are able to create fairly reliable and, when they want them to, authentic-appearing Swiss movements, at least to the untrained eye. This brings the cost down much lower than the Seiko and Miyota automatics, which even purchased in bulk are much more ex…

For automatics, I think you are right. I've seen this mainly for quartz or mecha-quartz movements.

Re: Confessions of a Watch Geek

#43

Post by vitaminbandit »

loydb wrote: post #12

I love that Nomos was featured heavily. I don't own one yet, but they are for sure my favorite manufacturer.

As a huge fan of Nomos, it's very hard to pull the trigger on one. On the one hand, they increase their MSRP very regularly - so the best time to buy is now. On the other, it's easy to lose 30-50% reselling a Nomos because the brand is still relatively unknown.

Best option: get a lightly used one for a steep discount =)

Re: Confessions of a Watch Geek

#44

Post by neaden »

md_ wrote: post #38
falcolas wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For better or worse the cost of skilled human labor, particularly someone trained as a watchmaker, is damned expensive. Supply and demand. Can you get a similar, and perhaps even better constructed (machines are, after all, more precise than humans) watch from China? Sure. Is it the same watch? No. These watches are luxury items - a status symbol. They are the Rolls Royce of watches: built by hand, damned expensive,…

> Can you get a similar, and perhaps even better constructed (machines are, after all, more precise than humans) watch from China? Sure. Is it the same watch? No. As far as I can tell, the manual labor is roughly the same in both cases. Chinese mechanical movements are not assembled entirely by machines--in fact, in many cases the machining may be quite similar. (Many of the popular Seagull calibers are basically clo…

Are there any Chinese brands that aren't replicas? Just selling their own designs I mean for a cheaper hand crafted watch?

Re: Confessions of a Watch Geek

#45

Post by md_ »

neaden wrote: post #44
md_ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you get a similar, and perhaps even better constructed (machines are, after all, more precise than humans) watch from China? Sure. Is it the same watch? No. As far as I can tell, the manual labor is roughly the same in both cases. Chinese mechanical movements are not assembled entirely by machines--in fact, in many cases the machining may be quite similar. (Many of the popular Seagull calibers are basically clo…

Are there any Chinese brands that aren't replicas? Just selling their own designs I mean for a cheaper hand crafted watch?

Yes, certainly!

I was highly tempted by the Seagull "1963", which is a replica of a model made for the Chinese air force in 1963 (powered by a Seagull ST19 movement, supposedly a clone of a Swiss Venus column-wheel chrono movement!).

But there are quite a number of other Seagull and similar around--some made for the Chinese domestic market, and a (seemingly increasing) number made for export inspired by various classic designs.

Re: Confessions of a Watch Geek

#46

Post by md_ »

falcolas wrote: post #31
tsunamifury wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My question was more at the level of "What if you could buy a Rolls Royce from China that was in ever way, practically identical and cost as much as your Dodge?" What would that do to the car market?

To the real Rolls cars? Probably not much. Mostly, I would see them putting a bit more effort to ensure their cars are easily distinguishable from the Chinese clones. They aren't, after all, really that much better than regular cars in the first place. A simple $40,000 luxury model from BMW or Audi is quite comparable in terms of fit and finish. The types of leathers and woods will differ, but for the purposes of a d…

In a way, the whole thing is much weirder. As Shteyngart notes, mechanical watches are in almost all ways inferior to quartz in terms of utility.

But because of that inferiority (and sensitivity to manufacture), the difference between poor and high quality mechanicals is much more readily observable by the owner than for a quartz. (If my watch gains or loses 30s/day--a reasonable performance for a Seiko 7s26--I will quickly notice, whereas if my quartz gains or loses one second, I may not.)

In the car case, the spectrum is basically continuous; in watches it's segmented in this very peculiar way.

Re: Confessions of a Watch Geek

#47

Post by huhtenberg »

blawson wrote: post #36
huhtenberg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mid-to-high-end watch market (in the $1K-50K range) is going through a _major_ crisis right now. For past several years they've been aggressively raising prices due to steady Chinese demand, which now has been all but extinguished by a combination of several factors. So the watchmakers are now is a pickle of situation - watches are massively over-priced, their "normal" customers are well aware of that, but they c…

Do you have any thoughts on these other factors, on the drop in demand? Sounds interesting to me. I'm not a collector but do fall for the lustre of high-end watches. I see a few articles on the crackdown on corruption, strong franc, and younger generations being poorer. But surely China is minting huge numbers of new solidly middle and upper-middle class customers all the time?

From what I understand the dip was mostly due to an anti-corruption crackdown, because a lot of watches were bought as gifts/bribes. That's actually not specific to China, expensive watches have made an excellent bribe, but apparently Chinese were hoarding them in bulk for that purpose.

Re: Confessions of a Watch Geek

#48

Post by ansgri »

exodust wrote: post #32
ansgri wrote: post #2

If you want a watch that looks like a Russian oligarch just curled up around your wrist and died, you might be interested in the latest model of Rolex’s Sky-Dweller. Beautifully written.

Very smooth writing, like a luxury watch. I can't believe I've now opened a few tabs of watch manufacturers, looking at their goodies. Haven't worn a watch in years, but curious to see if any designs take my fancy. I'm not a fan of classic, I'd prefer something sci-fi, dark, modern, hi-tech, unexpectedly cool with a comically over-the-top product video... https://youtu.be/R5aj53a1wQE

Thanks for the link, I think it's a step in the right direction. I've stopped wearing Pebble Steel because it's too ugly, though the functionality is perfect: you can see what's happening with your phone to decide whether you want to take it out of the bag to respond to a call or a message.

What would be perfect, is a classic timepiece design with really high-contrast and high-resolution display as a watch face, which would display something only in case of incoming notification. I.e. a smart watch should have a mode where it looks totally "dumb" and classy.

Re: Confessions of a Watch Geek

#49

Post by gingerbread-man »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #41
gingerbread-man wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might like Habring2 as well. The founder invented a novel mechanism now used in split-second chronographs. Their watches are mechanically amazing, and (relatively) cheap, because they focus more on mechanical refinement than aesthetic perfection of the internals.

Habring2 are likable, but not what I'd call 'relatively' cheap, as none of their models are less than $4000 USD. For people who are interested in modestly-priced mechanical watches, I would suggest Seiko, especially some of their models intended for the Japanese Domestic Market, many of which are less than $500 USD. They have very good quality throughout, though the aesthetics vary (I like some of their divers quite…

I agree 100% on Seiko. (For what it's worth, I wear a quartz seiko my parents gave me as a high school graduation gift.) Habring2's "relative" affordability is relative to other manufacturers of similar mechanical note, like Lange or Patek.

Re: Confessions of a Watch Geek

#50

Post by gloves »

rocqua wrote: post #11
travanx wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still remember getting my first paycheck after graduating and buying a Breitling 15 years ago because I liked the logo. And got a cheaper Rolex when I started my first company. We were watching a TV show where someone gets a Patek as a gift and told my significant other that's a really expensive watch. She had no idea. Then I went onto explain how cool different mechanical watches are because you can hear the diffe…

This was a sad story :(

This is a sad story! Don't give up on the dream! Enjoy it because you enjoy it!
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