Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Which Berkeley Courses Should I Archive?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 155 posts

Re: Ask HN: Which Berkeley Courses Should I Archive?

#71

Post by derekp7 »

BeetleB wrote: post #65
lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What it comes down to is no action is being taken against a minority. The existence of videos not optimal for the deaf (because they can certainly watch them and benefit from google's increasingly effective auto captions) isn't discrimination. To compare that with with legitimate historical oppressions against minorities is short sighted. This isn't utilitarian "good of the many at the expense of the few" this is goo…

>What it comes down to is no action is being taken against a minority. In your earlier comment, you phrased it as "Denying billions" . Either it is an action, or it is not. You cannot make it an action for only one group. >The existence of videos not optimal for the deaf (because they can certainly watch them and benefit from google's increasingly effective auto captions) isn't discrimination. I truly appreciate you…

What if a particular classroom has no impacted users, so there isn't (for example) a sign language translator in the class. Now the instructor left the door opened, and doesn't mind if someone loitering in the hallway overhears the lecture. Should the school be required to always provide a sign language interpreter, just in case a deaf person walks through the hallway and wants to observer part of the class from the hall?

Posting the videos online is just a larger version of leaving the classroom door open.

Re: Ask HN: Which Berkeley Courses Should I Archive?

#72

Post by jtokoph »

Dangeranger wrote: post #64
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

All of it has already been archived (EDIT: thanks to the hard work and quick response of ArchiveTeam and /r/DataHoarder). [edit: link to Archive Team project-specific page removed to reduce excessive load; replaced with Archive.is link below] https://archive.is/D1Ail

Has anyone been able to use youtube-dl to archive the CS61B-2016-Spring? 'Computer Science 61B, 002 - Spring 2015' https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-XXv-cvA_iDD4nnsfVIq... Unfortunately this content appears to be throwing HTTP 500 server errors while downloading according to the verbose output. If anyone has that content I'd be interested to know what worked for you.

I have no clue why that error is happening but I was getting the same result. Skipping the first video got it to run for me:

    youtube-dl --playlist-start 2 "https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-XXv-cvA_iDD4nnsfVIqPFORTgZi9xRp"

Re: Ask HN: Which Berkeley Courses Should I Archive?

#73

Post by x0x0 »

billconan wrote: post #68
x0x0 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as far as I understand, they're only taking down pre-2015 stuff

OH really! That's good news!

   Instructors with course recordings on YouTube recorded fall 2015 or later 
   will experience no change.
from http://news.berkeley.edu/2017/02/24/faq-on-legacy-public-cou...

of course, it can't hurt to run youtube-dl on it...

Re: Ask HN: Which Berkeley Courses Should I Archive?

#74

Post by citrusx »

yourapostasy wrote: post #55

The proximate cause of this removal is Gallaudet University [1] [2]. What possible motivation could have moved those employees to file on behalf of their university? Malicious intent (they didn't want the free material competing with their courses)? Lack of gratitude (the material is free , but that's not enough)? Zealotry (everything, even free content, must meet their ADA compliance standards)? Simple lack of think…

I really hate to say this, but I think that the "darkening of the net" is the intent. There are far too many people there who subscribe to the "Deaf Persons as a separate race" idea, and look at sticking a thumb in the eye of the non-deaf to be a Good Thing.

I really hope I'm wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Which Berkeley Courses Should I Archive?

#75

Post by BeetleB »

SilasX wrote: post #66
BeetleB wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why I'm getting downvoted for this. I am not saying I agree with the rule. I am pointing out the reason UCB has to take this action. The option proposed by the commenter is not one that UCB can legally take. If my interpretation of the ruling/law is wrong, please correct me.

I'm downvoting you because you're not engaging with the arguments of those who disagree with you, and therefore not adding to the discussion. It's clear that one can both agree with "you can't always be 100% utilitarian", and that accommodation is good, and still think this particular application of it is not an optimal resolution. Simply repeating back that "we need to accommodate the disabled" is not responding to…

>I'm downvoting you because you're not engaging with the arguments of those who disagree with you, and therefore not adding to the discussion.

I am in two separate threads. My question was in this thread, where I was downvoted with no response. I cannot engage with arguments that are not put forth.

>It's clear that one can both agree with "you can't always be 100% utilitarian", and that accommodation is good, and still think this particular application of it is not an optimal resolution.

Something I have not disputed.

I've said it before, but I think I need to put an "I neither agree nor disagree with UCB's decision" in every comment I make in this thread. I am not defending their decision. I am, however, pointing out flaws in the criticisms of the decision. It is OK to say you do not agree with the decision. But when you give a reason that is problematic, I can highlight that.

>Simply repeating back that "we need to accommodate the disabled" is not responding to anyone,

I agree, but this is not what I said. I am pointing out what I think the law says, and how I am guessing UCB is interpreting it (it is definitely how the DOJ is interpreting it).

>Note that you have yet to answer even the challenge I presented in this thread: are you opposed to the private hosting of these videos?

Can you supply me with a reason to answer that, when I do not have an opinion on UCB's decision? Your demand from me is part of the problem you are complaining about. Making an issue binary without accepting the nuances.

Re: Ask HN: Which Berkeley Courses Should I Archive?

#77

Post by Zungaron »

BeetleB wrote: post #63
BeetleB wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm not involved in the previous discussion at all, but given my limited knowledge of the facts, I'd propose a solution like: "Berkeley should keep these videos up, and work to add subtitles and accessibility features to them in a reasonable timeframe, consistent with funding and personnel availability." The issue is that this is not an option. Any institution that gets federal money is required to comply with ADA r…

Not sure why I'm getting downvoted for this. I am not saying I agree with the rule. I am pointing out the reason UCB has to take this action. The option proposed by the commenter is not one that UCB can legally take. If my interpretation of the ruling/law is wrong, please correct me.

Your interpretation of the law is incorrect, and there was no ruling, as this never went to trial. Berkeley removed the content instead of negotiating for a reasonable timeframe to update it.

Re: Ask HN: Which Berkeley Courses Should I Archive?

#78

Post by closeparen »

SilasX wrote: post #49

I deeply apologize if this is off topic, but this request highlights an issue with the original debate, where posters were tripping over each others to express indignation about Berkeley releasing these videos without disability accommodations, reiterating the same arguments for the ADA, and asserting that those same considerations apply here. If you thought the judgment against Berkeley was justified-- that they cou…

I hold both views.

The subtitle requirement doesn't apply to members of the general public. It applies to large institutions which know better, and have the resources to comply.

If Berkeley is embarrassed, some other university takes the time to subtitle its video content in the future to avoid a similar mess, and the public gets to keep the Berkeley videos, that's the best possible outcome short of Berkeley captioning its videos and continuing to host them.

The point isn't "if people with disabilities can't have it, no one can." That's just an unfortunate cost of enforcement. The point is to apply some mild coercion to make more of the world accessible to people with disabilities, and if this debacle has that effect, it's working as intended.

Re: Ask HN: Which Berkeley Courses Should I Archive?

#79

Post by Zungaron »

SilasX wrote: post #49

I deeply apologize if this is off topic, but this request highlights an issue with the original debate, where posters were tripping over each others to express indignation about Berkeley releasing these videos without disability accommodations, reiterating the same arguments for the ADA, and asserting that those same considerations apply here. If you thought the judgment against Berkeley was justified-- that they cou…

The ADA already reconciles these viewpoints, by allowing for people who would otherwise be in violation to claim exemption because complying would cause an undue burden. So we shouldn't expect a random person on the internet to pay for captioning 20,000 videos, because that would be (presumably) ridiculously outside their means. On the other hand, it's reasonable to assume that a university that could recently afford a $400 million dollar renovation to their athletics stadium could afford to caption 20,000 videos.

Re: Ask HN: Which Berkeley Courses Should I Archive?

#80

Post by et-al »

bogomipz wrote: post #70
toomuchtodo wrote: post #3

All of it has already been archived (EDIT: thanks to the hard work and quick response of ArchiveTeam and /r/DataHoarder). [edit: link to Archive Team project-specific page removed to reduce excessive load; replaced with Archive.is link below] https://archive.is/D1Ail

If you looked at the "Downloaded" column on that link most of the CS courses haven't been downloaded. Also when I click on a link like I am redirected to youtube where the content is as of now still available. Am I missing something?

[edited out my comment to reduce the noise -- see comments below]
Post reply on HN