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Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

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Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#51
post #25

And all this striving towards Chekhov's idea of cultured allows one to achieve what? I'd venture that for most it would amount to smugly patting themselves on the back for having achieved such a fine state of serenity. If this version of cultured means just another way to feel superior to others, I'm happy to be uncultured.

Don't worry. Chekhov's advice is only meant for talented people.

Case in point: I'm better than you attitude. So cultured!

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#52

> They do not ask for the cleverness which shows itself in continual lying. They want especially, if they are artists, freshness, elegance, humanity, the capacity for motherhood ugh. Cut the misogynistic crap please Chekhov

TFW you're voted down immediately for calling out sexism which, though very explicit, has so far gone uncommented upon

[edit] - could someone please explain why they're voting me down?

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#53

I suspect a subtle mistranslation here. Chekhov seems to be talking about decent people, or maybe good people, not cultured ones. In English, it is quite possible to be cultured but bad. You know all kinds of stuff about literature, music, art, history and science (and therefore you are cultured) but you cheat on your wife and your taxes (and are therefore bad).

I think it depends on your definition of cultured as well. Depending on the dictionary it also means enlightened and good mannered. I consider cheating pretty bad mannered.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#54
post #16

And all this striving towards Chekhov's idea of cultured allows one to achieve what? I'd venture that for most it would amount to smugly patting themselves on the back for having achieved such a fine state of serenity. If this version of cultured means just another way to feel superior to others, I'm happy to be uncultured.

The items on that list would be natural byproducts of simple humility, serenity of the mind, and the pursuit of excellence. These things are their own reward.

Surely. But one might argue that spending your time pondering how to make yourself 'cultured' is a nauseatingly bourgeois activity, ripe for satire when compared with the harder realities of life for the less well privileged.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#55
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the thing about russians and noses? Well. https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/g/gogol/nikolai/g61n/

I'd always had an impression of classical Russian writing as being impenetrable, but this was delightful. Thank you!

I wonder how much of that has to do with it having been translated by people of that period into a classical style of that period. For recent history, maybe that yields "official" translations that are into an older English form that is harder for modern people to read.

For example, is a 19th century translation of an ancient Greek text also somewhat impenetrable compared to a more contemporary translation? How much of the problem is that the translation may not target English as we expect it in its current common form?

Is it common (possible?) to find "from scratch" translations from the last 30-40 years of classical Russian literature?

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#56
I have a set of rules I give my children. I started with them as kind of a joke because they would always flip out about stuff, so naturally, rule #1 is:

1) Be calm

2) Be kind

3) Don't steal

4) Always attempt your best

I've always liked the thought that "don't steal" is the ultimate morality lesson. Killing someone is stealing their life away. Adultering is stealing someone else's love or relationship. And of course, stealing in its basic meaning.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally saw it and even touched his nose. Did it work?

Well, there's no possiblity of doing A/B testing. I can't go back and live an alternate life where I didn't touch his nose. So there's no way to know. But I'm enjoying my life, and I'm happy with the life in which I did touch his nose.

There definitely is a way, that's how all research is done. You send three groups there, one that doesn't touch anything, one that touches his nose, and another one that touches nose of the fake statue, without knowing that it is fake. If second group appears to have more luck than the other two over time, then it works.

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#58
I'm struck by how much this echoes Confucius and the Analects and how they define the so-called gentleman or noble man (not to be confused with nobleman, and translation is hard). Given how unlikely it is that Chekhov had exposure to either, it's incredible to observe the universality of these qualities considered admirable.

If people haven't, do recommend checking out The Analects! Caveat: there are quite a few excerpts that need to be taken in historical perspective, or can be easily misinterpreted (e.g. advice to be slow to embrace new that was in context of centuries of chaos and warring, or statements on women that interpreted naïvely clearly contradict other statements on mothers).

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#59
I notice this theme again and again in every "change yourself" book, show, class, lecture. Be it weight loss, improving mental health, curing addiction, becoming a better writer/photographer/programmer, the theme all comes down to a battle against yourself. Fighting the desire to snack, fighting the desire to lay on the couch instead of going to the gym, fighting the desire to veg and watch netflix instead of watching another lecture in the MOOC you're taking.

You'd think it'd be easier to control ourselves. I have trouble understanding how we can want something, but some other part of us can seem to not want that thing, or just be extremely short sighted to the point of being an obstacle to our "long-sighted self."

Re: Chekhov: “Cultured people must, in my opinion, satisfy the following conditions”

#60
post #34

They do not use their smart phones in the presence of others.

On the timeline of humanity, our pocket computers are brand-new. It will likely be a couple of decades before we sort out the social norms of using them. However, I think that we will fall towards using these devices constantly in all social settings because the young people growing up won't have the nostalgia of time before smartphones-- there was never a time where you and your friends sat at a table and talked com…

It's also possible the current physical manifestations of these devices will change quite a bit in the near future. I imagine in 20 years of less we'll mostly be using some eye based (glasses, lenses, whatever) display with AR and gesture control.(likely with a gesture "shorthand" for AR control with limited movement for when you don't want to wave your hand in front of you).

At that point, it will be both much more and much less invasive, as it will likely be fully integrated. You can use it to enhance your conversation by adding context, distract from your conversation by utilizing it for something unrelated, or ignore it entirely. Sort of like your memory and imagination now (because that's what it will be at that point, a slower but much fuller extension to your current mind).

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