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Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

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Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#31

Post by blusterXY »

merlincorey wrote: post #21
splintercell wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, the biggest blow to ETH is the revelation that "the code is NOT law". Considering Ethereum Classic has all the features of ETH and it follows whatever your distorted definition of 'code is law' means, the fact that ETC is at it's all time low (compared to its price in ETH)). The question remains if ETH violated 'Code is Law', then how come market doesn't care. Clearly the biggest blow to ETH is NOT the DAO…

> Considering Ethereum Classic has all the features of ETH and it follows whatever your distorted definition of 'code is law' means, the fact that ETC is at it's all time low (compared to its price in ETH)). The question remains if ETH violated 'Code is Law', then how come market doesn't care. I'm not sure how my view is distorted - it might be naive, I concede. My view is basically the person who found a flaw in The…

If a bug was discovered in bitcoin that robbed 80% of its users in some unexpected fashion, the network would probably hard fork too. All ETH did was basically a 51% attack by stakeholders in the network.

One lesson is not to trust ANY contract to be immutable if it manages an outsized chunk of network capital. Another is that Ethereum will beat its private competitors, since for contracts to be trustworthy they will need to run on the biggest and most diversified network there is.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#32

Post by natosaichek »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #20
merlincorey wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The underlying technology here is far superior to that of bitcoin Opinion > ethereum is a blockchain with a turing-complete programming language built on top of it and enables decentralized code execution Fact -- but double edged sword (my opinion, of course). I have personally been skeptical of ETH for years as their team have been promising the moon for a variety of use cases. For me, the biggest blow to ETH is t…

I'm personally waiting on an ETH successor with non-Turing-complete, verifiable code. There's no reason that smart contracts require Turing completeness (no real world program requires it, for that matter), and software theorem proving will be required for me to take smart contracts seriously. We need to be able to prove things about the contract execution for it to be safe to trust "code as contract". Im not as upse…

One of the cool things about Ethereum is that you can build your non-turing-complete contract software on Eth, and use Eth to check your NTC-Eth contracts. I can't think of anything stopping you from doing this right now. Maybe you or other people can weigh in on why it's not feasible?

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#33

Post by tyre »

splintercell wrote: post #26
merlincorey wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Considering Ethereum Classic has all the features of ETH and it follows whatever your distorted definition of 'code is law' means, the fact that ETC is at it's all time low (compared to its price in ETH)). The question remains if ETH violated 'Code is Law', then how come market doesn't care. I'm not sure how my view is distorted - it might be naive, I concede. My view is basically the person who found a flaw in The…

I am calling your view of 'code is law' as a distorted view because it isn't that the other side doesn't think that code is law, it's just what do we consider 'the law' to be. In my world view, if you and I wrote a contract, and in the contract, there is a typo which says that I will pay you $5 gazillion for an iPhone, then that doesn't mean that the courts must enforce it. Clearly, it doesn't follow the 'intent' of…

The parent is saying that the entire point of Ethereum was to remove fuzzy human-world debates around things like "intent". If it doesn't, then what is the point? That they are decentralized? Who cares, and why?

I don't disagree that Ethereum should have forked, but that is a human response. If we can take human responses to these contracts, then they aren't any different than normal paper contracts.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#34

Post by latenightcoding »

Ethereum brought a lot of geeky fun to my life, it's a great hobby for those interested in cryptocurrencies, distributed systems, compilers and so on. But, it was just that, a hobby. 90% of the people I met in Ethereum meetups and hackathons didn't really understand what Ethereum is, most big companies that invest in Ethereum just do it because they don't want to miss "the next big thing", not because Ethereum solves any of their problems.

After the hard fork I stopped going to these meetups and hackathons.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#36

Post by JumpCrisscross »

splintercell wrote: post #28
dogecoinbase wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. You literally sacrificed your principles. Now you're here trying to justify your own actions to yourself . This pointless noise you're making? You're trying to convince yourself, because you clearly know you're in the wrong. It's just as obvious from over here.

> Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Let's say that Hard fork never happened, lets say if tomorrow due to a certain smart contract, 90% of the Ether holders sell off, and go join Lisk or some other Smart contract platform, would you say because 90% of the Ethereum supporters sold off their currency, therefore the smart contract has been 'stopped' and that they should remove…

I think an idea is f@<&led by design if it so quickly leads to an irreconcilable catastrophe. We already have mutable contracts. And we already have hard, distributed ledgers. If you're taking your contracting distributed ledger and making it optionally soft, I don't see a place for it other than for internal political purposes ("Look ma, I'm doing blockchain!"). That, admittedly, has value, but only so much.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#37

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

natosaichek wrote: post #32
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm personally waiting on an ETH successor with non-Turing-complete, verifiable code. There's no reason that smart contracts require Turing completeness (no real world program requires it, for that matter), and software theorem proving will be required for me to take smart contracts seriously. We need to be able to prove things about the contract execution for it to be safe to trust "code as contract". Im not as upse…

One of the cool things about Ethereum is that you can build your non-turing-complete contract software on Eth, and use Eth to check your NTC-Eth contracts. I can't think of anything stopping you from doing this right now. Maybe you or other people can weigh in on why it's not feasible?

The ETH language semantics aren't what I'd want for verification proofs, even restricted to a subset. It's possible there are conflicts between the execution model and what would be required for verified, secure contracts.

Similarly, Id want a proof-checked VM for the currency, which ETH is pretty far from supporting.

So verified-ETH would be a larger, more bug-prone project than starting from first principles, developing a language and VM in parallel. (Also, starting a new project gives a chance to change the economics and/or technology used; depending on your views, this might be a benefit.)

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#38

Post by antocv »

Turing complete smart contracts are a problem, we will make mistakes, The DAO showed. Programmers can not make perfect software, formal logic is too hard and too expensive.

Instead, you can use a cryptocurrency which supports declarative smart contracts, which a lay-person could read, write and understand.

Declarative smart contracts, over at https://byteball.org/

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#39

Post by cslarson »

tyre wrote: post #33
splintercell wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am calling your view of 'code is law' as a distorted view because it isn't that the other side doesn't think that code is law, it's just what do we consider 'the law' to be. In my world view, if you and I wrote a contract, and in the contract, there is a typo which says that I will pay you $5 gazillion for an iPhone, then that doesn't mean that the courts must enforce it. Clearly, it doesn't follow the 'intent' of…

The parent is saying that the entire point of Ethereum was to remove fuzzy human-world debates around things like "intent". If it doesn't, then what is the point? That they are decentralized? Who cares, and why? I don't disagree that Ethereum should have forked, but that is a human response. If we can take human responses to these contracts, then they aren't any different than normal paper contracts.

Yes it was a human response. One totally within the rules of the protocol - that those using it chose to no longer use it in it's current state but they do chose a slightly modified one. Humans were always the ones responsible for the network as they are for bitcoin.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#40

Post by TorKlingberg »

merlincorey wrote: post #21
splintercell wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, the biggest blow to ETH is the revelation that "the code is NOT law". Considering Ethereum Classic has all the features of ETH and it follows whatever your distorted definition of 'code is law' means, the fact that ETC is at it's all time low (compared to its price in ETH)). The question remains if ETH violated 'Code is Law', then how come market doesn't care. Clearly the biggest blow to ETH is NOT the DAO…

> Considering Ethereum Classic has all the features of ETH and it follows whatever your distorted definition of 'code is law' means, the fact that ETC is at it's all time low (compared to its price in ETH)). The question remains if ETH violated 'Code is Law', then how come market doesn't care. I'm not sure how my view is distorted - it might be naive, I concede. My view is basically the person who found a flaw in The…

Ultimately a cryptocurrency, like many things, is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. If people decide to stop using Old Etherium and switch to New Etherium that works the same and where everyone except the hacker get New Eth for their Old Eth, there is no way to stop them.
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