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Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

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Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#21

Post by merlincorey »

splintercell wrote: post #12
merlincorey wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The underlying technology here is far superior to that of bitcoin Opinion > ethereum is a blockchain with a turing-complete programming language built on top of it and enables decentralized code execution Fact -- but double edged sword (my opinion, of course). I have personally been skeptical of ETH for years as their team have been promising the moon for a variety of use cases. For me, the biggest blow to ETH is t…

> For me, the biggest blow to ETH is the revelation that "the code is NOT law". Considering Ethereum Classic has all the features of ETH and it follows whatever your distorted definition of 'code is law' means, the fact that ETC is at it's all time low (compared to its price in ETH)). The question remains if ETH violated 'Code is Law', then how come market doesn't care. Clearly the biggest blow to ETH is NOT the DAO…

> Considering Ethereum Classic has all the features of ETH and it follows whatever your distorted definition of 'code is law' means, the fact that ETC is at it's all time low (compared to its price in ETH)). The question remains if ETH violated 'Code is Law', then how come market doesn't care.

I'm not sure how my view is distorted - it might be naive, I concede.

My view is basically the person who found a flaw in TheDAO code deserved to be rewarded for it, even if it was not the intent of TheDAO, because I was sold (perhaps improperly) on the code being the arbiter, not people or politics.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#22

Post by merlincorey »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #20
merlincorey wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The underlying technology here is far superior to that of bitcoin Opinion > ethereum is a blockchain with a turing-complete programming language built on top of it and enables decentralized code execution Fact -- but double edged sword (my opinion, of course). I have personally been skeptical of ETH for years as their team have been promising the moon for a variety of use cases. For me, the biggest blow to ETH is t…

I'm personally waiting on an ETH successor with non-Turing-complete, verifiable code. There's no reason that smart contracts require Turing completeness (no real world program requires it, for that matter), and software theorem proving will be required for me to take smart contracts seriously. We need to be able to prove things about the contract execution for it to be safe to trust "code as contract". Im not as upse…

I think this is a great response, especially because I agree with the first part, and the second part gave me more to think about.

> I'm personally waiting on an ETH successor with non-Turing-complete, verifiable code.

Absolutely! My premise is that with turing completeness comes more chances for shooting in the foot.

> Im not as upset about the hardfork as many people, though. Social constructs should be changable by politics, not indelible and absolute. That's not what they were selling, but all the same, what they were selling was dystopian nonsense where humans are chained to machines, not their masters. It's a feature not bug of social constructs to be changeable through politics. What matters is the political process to do so.

This is great insight. I think for me, personally, the problem I have is that it seems like there isn't much politics involved at all... a completely centralized and small group made a decision and the great majority of users followed right along (as we would expect them to).

This is not quite how it is (or was anyway) sold to people as a concept.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#23

Post by yarrel »

koolba wrote: post #8
AroundTheBlock_ wrote: post #3

I'll get the dumb stuff out of the way. No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. No it wasn't a centralized bailout. Yes, there were SOME shady things that went down, but all very minor. It was a very confusing time for all. Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Congratulations. Let me direct you to Ethereum Classic. You can't complain about a hard fork w…

> No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. > No it wasn't a centralized bailout. > Yes, there were SOME shady things that went down, but all very minor. It was a very confusing time for all. > Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Congratulations. Let me direct you to Ethereum Classic. You can't complain about a hard fork when you have a community that up…

Proof of Stake.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#24

Post by dogecoinbase »

AroundTheBlock_ wrote: post #11
merlincorey wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your attitude here isn't exactly endearing me, and I would imagine some third party observers as well. Your team has always been a bit combative with regards to criticism, from my experience. That said... I am actually more interested in using ethereum classic than I am ethereum, uh, central.

My attitude is neutral. I'm not here to endear anyone. I have zero desire to influence you nor anyone else to purchase and/or use Ethereum. My only purpose is to clear up misconceptions and defend the reasoning behind the hard fork. And I am very supportive of those users who want to use Ethereum Classic. However, don't shit on the users who want to use the main chain.

No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles.

Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one.

You literally sacrificed your principles. Now you're here trying to justify your own actions to yourself. This pointless noise you're making? You're trying to convince yourself, because you clearly know you're in the wrong. It's just as obvious from over here.

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#26

Post by splintercell »

merlincorey wrote: post #21
splintercell wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, the biggest blow to ETH is the revelation that "the code is NOT law". Considering Ethereum Classic has all the features of ETH and it follows whatever your distorted definition of 'code is law' means, the fact that ETC is at it's all time low (compared to its price in ETH)). The question remains if ETH violated 'Code is Law', then how come market doesn't care. Clearly the biggest blow to ETH is NOT the DAO…

> Considering Ethereum Classic has all the features of ETH and it follows whatever your distorted definition of 'code is law' means, the fact that ETC is at it's all time low (compared to its price in ETH)). The question remains if ETH violated 'Code is Law', then how come market doesn't care. I'm not sure how my view is distorted - it might be naive, I concede. My view is basically the person who found a flaw in The…

I am calling your view of 'code is law' as a distorted view because it isn't that the other side doesn't think that code is law, it's just what do we consider 'the law' to be.

In my world view, if you and I wrote a contract, and in the contract, there is a typo which says that I will pay you $5 gazillion for an iPhone, then that doesn't mean that the courts must enforce it. Clearly, it doesn't follow the 'intent' of the parties.

Now, what if the other side truly signed the contract because they thought that their iPhone was being bought for 5 gazillion dollars, well this is why we don't "JUST" communicate via the contract. We communicate and perform negotiations via other human channels and the legal contract is a formalized expression of our communication.

Same thing goes with smart contracts. I don't intend to use Smart Contracts because the missing 11th commandment said: "Thou shalt obey the Legal/Smart Contracts to the word". I want to use Smart Contracts because they would be an extension of legal contracts taken to the decentralized + technology domain.

Literally, nobody put their money in the DAO because they thought that if a person puts in $1000 in the DAO then he should be able to take out $10 million if he is clever enough. It wasn't a bounty contract. If that was known beforehand, then there is no way it would have accrued $150 million worth of ethers.

> My view is basically the person who found a flaw in TheDAO code deserved to be rewarded for it, even if it was not the intent of TheDAO, because I was sold (perhaps improperly) on the code being the arbiter, not people or politics.

Lemme put it this way, had the hard fork not happened, but nearly 90% of the Ethereum holders quit Ethereum after that, (which meant that the hacker's bounty would have been decimated, would you still say that Ethereum is never going to succeed because they didn't honor the hacker's bounty?

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#27

Post by splintercell »

koolba wrote: post #13
AroundTheBlock_ wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What's to prevent a similar situation in the future and why should anyone believe that to hold?" Ask yourself if this was a centralized hard fork ordered by up high, or as users we chose to opt in to this change. Clearly we opted in, because Ethereum Classic exists for those who so wish. Therefore, the Ethereum Foundation did not "force" me to do anything that I didn't agree to. Yes in my example Musk might have got…

> Ask yourself if this was a centralized hard fork ordered by up high, or as users we chose to opt in to this change. Clearly we opted in, because Ethereum Classic exists for those who so wish. Therefore, the Ethereum Foundation did not "force" me to do anything that I didn't agree to. The analogy to the legal system is that mob rule supersedes (digital) contract law and property rights. If people want to go down tha…

> The analogy to the legal system is that mob rule supersedes (digital) contract law and property rights.

Imagine if you and I wrote a contract, and in the contract, there is a typo which says that I will pay you $5 gazillion for an iPhone, then that doesn't mean that the courts must enforce it. Clearly, it doesn't follow the 'intent' of the parties.

Now, what if the other side truly signed the contract because they thought that their iPhone was being bought for 5 gazillion dollars, well this is why we don't "JUST" communicate via the contract. We communicate and perform negotiations via other human channels and the legal contract is a formalized expression of our communication.

Same thing goes with smart contracts. I don't intend to use Smart Contracts because the missing 11th commandment said: "Thou shalt obey the Legal/Smart Contracts to the word". I want to use Smart Contracts because they would be an extension of legal contracts taken to the decentralized + technology domain.

Literally, nobody put their money in the DAO because they thought that if a person puts in $1000 in the DAO then he should be able to take out $10 million if he is clever enough.

Lemme put it this way, had the hard fork not happened, but nearly 90% of the Ethereum holders quit Ethereum after that and joined say Lisk or some other smart contract platform, (which meant that the hacker's bounty would have been decimated, would you still say that 'mob rule has superceded the contract law and property rights'?

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#28

Post by splintercell »

dogecoinbase wrote: post #24
AroundTheBlock_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My attitude is neutral. I'm not here to endear anyone. I have zero desire to influence you nor anyone else to purchase and/or use Ethereum. My only purpose is to clear up misconceptions and defend the reasoning behind the hard fork. And I am very supportive of those users who want to use Ethereum Classic. However, don't shit on the users who want to use the main chain.

No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. You literally sacrificed your principles. Now you're here trying to justify your own actions to yourself . This pointless noise you're making? You're trying to convince yourself, because you clearly know you're in the wrong. It's just as obvious from over here.

> Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one.

Let's say that Hard fork never happened, lets say if tomorrow due to a certain smart contract, 90% of the Ether holders sell off, and go join Lisk or some other Smart contract platform, would you say because 90% of the Ethereum supporters sold off their currency, therefore the smart contract has been 'stopped' and that they should remove "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" from their website?

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#29

Post by computerwizard »

merlincorey wrote: post #22
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm personally waiting on an ETH successor with non-Turing-complete, verifiable code. There's no reason that smart contracts require Turing completeness (no real world program requires it, for that matter), and software theorem proving will be required for me to take smart contracts seriously. We need to be able to prove things about the contract execution for it to be safe to trust "code as contract". Im not as upse…

I think this is a great response, especially because I agree with the first part, and the second part gave me more to think about. > I'm personally waiting on an ETH successor with non-Turing-complete, verifiable code. Absolutely! My premise is that with turing completeness comes more chances for shooting in the foot. > Im not as upset about the hardfork as many people, though. Social constructs should be changable b…

Checkout Byteball. I think it has a strong future and the technology is novel. https://Byteball.org

Re: Ethereum price goes up nearly 50 percent in under a week

#30

Post by pikzen »

AroundTheBlock_ wrote: post #3

I'll get the dumb stuff out of the way. No, the hard fork for TheDAO did not sacrifice our principles. No it wasn't a centralized bailout. Yes, there were SOME shady things that went down, but all very minor. It was a very confusing time for all. Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Congratulations. Let me direct you to Ethereum Classic. You can't complain about a hard fork w…

>Yes, the website says "unstoppable uncensorable contracts" and we stopped one. Congratulations. Let me direct you to Ethereum Classic.

"Our unregulated-free-market-dream-but-still-controlled-by-a-group-with-financial-interests-in-it cryptocurrency has two fundamentally incompatible versions, and may very well fork into a third at the whim of Ethereum's developers"

wew lad

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