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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#441

Post by throwaway743824 »

rdl wrote: post #325
throwaway743824 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful." I think that's extremely hard in terms of startups. You're essentially expecting the government to select what is valuable and what isn't. I don't like unclear visa situations either, but I haven't really seen a country effectively implement "come here and do whatever for a bit as long as you can take care of yourself".…

People founding startups are a very small subset of overall immigrants. There is probably another form of visa which would work well for that. Also, most people who do start startups are also competent, if not educated, enough to probably qualify under a more traditional points based system. A specific job accepted might be a +5 (and maybe make it contingent on remaining there for some period of employment), a colleg…

"People founding startups are a very small subset of overall immigrants."

True, even less create successful startups in a timely manner (even though they contribute overall). Which makes them so hard to target.

"Also, most people who do start startups are also competent, if not educated, enough to probably qualify under a more traditional points based system."

There's only so many ways to measure something and dropping out school to work for random Internet companies and starting your own before you have kids, which is a common profile for entrepreneurial people in Europe, tends to not tick a lot of them.

The US immigration system desperately needs reform, I just don't think any country has managed to create a formal system that is better for entrepreneurship than the realities of running your business illegally in the beginning (or at least pushing the meaning of a business visa). With some reservation for not having looked into the European startup/freelance visas.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#442

Post by pitt1980 »

DiNovi wrote: post #430
rdl wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful. The question is: where do you want to have the cutoff? I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), combined with a transparent and straightforward points-based system for mainly immigrant visas. I'd eliminate the inherent racism in the current system (penalizing India and China vs. Equatorial Gui…

"building the wall" is racism.... regardless, the problem is if you are perceived as not wanting immigrants, the most skilled ones will go elsewhere, because they can.

is that true? or do we merely wish it were true?

certainly talented people will have lots of different options as to where to apply their talent

but lets not pretend that all the places to apply talent are inherently equal, or that that the value propositions of those places is merely a function of whether those places are perceived as welcoming

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though its a highly imperfect analogy to a county, Harvard and Stanford regularly tell 95% of hopeful student that they're not welcome to come and study there, seemingly with little effect on their ability to attract the talent that they do want

I think that does indicate that talent attraction doesn't neatly equal welcomeness

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also seems worth noting, if one of the US's large assets in attracting talented foreigner is its large market available for entrepreneurial ambitions, one of its main competitors in this space doesn't have any issue categorizing entrants in their society based on their likely usefulness for their hosts https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/22/world/asia/china-work-per...

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#443

Post by tdb7893 »

halomru wrote: post #151
tdb7893 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we go far back enough wouldn't native americans be immigrants, too?

No, because the idea of nations is a lot newer than that. Without nations no immigrants.

I guess. This is a semantic argument but I'm actually a little curious. Does this mean that Europeans who settled in lands not specifically claimed by native Americans or European powers aren't immigrants? Also what's your opinion on whether you call someone am immigrant if they took the land by force and just declared it their's?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#444

Post by trustfundbaby »

pravula wrote: post #317
Steeeve wrote: post #268

Wait a second. You can come to the US, start a company, employ yourself, and support your own h1-b?

No. You cannot apply for your own H1B. This memo should be useful. https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/Laws/Memoran...

incorrect. That changed recently https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-immigration-a-ste...

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#445

Post by keepper »

rdl wrote: post #405
differentView wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should artists be exempted from the basic requirement of being able to support themselves that we expect from people of other professions?

If the bar for "can support himself" is suitably low, someone could be an artist, immigrate to the US to work as an engineer or accountant or nurse, and be an artist. Once he can support himself through art (and is likely a citizen), then be a great artist full time.

You have a really sad view of what "art" is, if you think "oh, he can just be a "

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#446

Post by ue_ »

witty_username wrote: post #349
Oxitendwe wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In my opinion, even if it may harm some natives, due to the poverty alleviating effects of immigration, we should open immigration to anyone who doesn't have a criminal record. What is the point of government if not to act in the best interests of its citizens? Why are our governments now apparently obligated to act in the best interests of foreign nationals? This has nothing to do with alleviating poverty or humani…

> What is the point of government if not to act in the best interests of its citizens? Why are our governments now apparently obligated to act in the best interests of foreign nationals? This has nothing to do with alleviating poverty or humanitarian ideals. It's blatantly obvious that this advocacy for open borders is part of a power grab by the left to ensure that they stay in power for decades to come, at the expe…

>I self-identify as a neoliberal (fiscally conservative); is that part of the left?

No. The left believes in the workers controlling the means of production and stopping capitalists from exploiting labour by appropriating value that they have no right to. I am for the concept of open borders, though. I wish for the destruction of nations, and like Marx, I am only in favour of 'globalisation' for this purpose - to break down and dissolve those old traditions and natonalities.

The dialectic of immigratation asks to investigate the reason why people immigrate - to move from one state of exploitation (or even a feudal way of living) into a slightly better one (such as you would find in the US). They also immigrate beacuse of war, moved on in no small part by the capitalism of the military industrial complex.

Rather than selfishly trying to 'fix' immigration by building walls, perhaps we should destroy the reason why people want to immigrate. It's unfortunate that world leaders have such little foresight to do this.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#447

Post by jacquesm »

Arizhel wrote: post #435
jacquesm wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd feel morally OK with using force to escape a country. Illegal immigration is fine with you if it is to escape a country, but not if it is to enter a country? Do realize that by using force to escape one country you'd immediately be illegally emigrating into another. A lot of your Southern neighbors feel just like you. They use force to escape their economic situation, a prison whose walls are roughly as effecti…

That's a really strange and horrible viewpoint you have. In my world, it's always OK for someone for someone to enter someone else's land/property if they've been given permission. If's not OK to do so if they haven't. However, holding people prisoner is always morally wrong. That's pretty much the definition of slavery. IMO, it's always OK for people to forcibly leave someone who's enslaving them; the complication i…

> That's a really strange and horrible viewpoint you have.

> In my world, it's always OK for someone for someone to enter someone else's land/property if they've been given permission.

Good.

> If's not OK to do so if they haven't.

Yes, because that suits you well. Because you only recognize those kinds of hardship that you yourself would want to escape from and ignore those that are actually in play.

> However, holding people prisoner is always morally wrong. That's pretty much the definition of slavery.

No, it isn't. There are some points in common but that's not slavery.

> IMO, it's always OK for people to forcibly leave someone who's enslaving them; the complication is finding someone who will take them in. Assuming they've found such a place, what possible defense can you have for people who want to imprison them?

Good question. Ask those who want to build a wall. You do realize that building that wall essentially says: Mexicans, you're on your own, you won't be able to vote with your feet any more, and we will not allow you to come to work in the USA to send money home in order to slowly increase the standard of living South of the border, made worse by American companies being strong-armed into operating North of that same border?

> You're assuming the country they're immigrating into hasn't given them permission.

I'm not aware of any of my friends who 'made it' having received prior permission to enter the country they fled to.

In fact, without exception they ended up in 'internment camps' after which they were allowed to apply to a number of countries around the world who might want to accept them.

Effectively they were in no-mans land.

> This is a baseless assumption.

No, in fact this is the way it goes. Given that I've actually lived on both sides of such a wall for a while I figure my assumptions are anything but baseless.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#448

Post by ue_ »

rdl wrote: post #383
jacquesm wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd feel morally OK with using force to escape a country. Illegal immigration is fine with you if it is to escape a country, but not if it is to enter a country? Do realize that by using force to escape one country you'd immediately be illegally emigrating into another. A lot of your Southern neighbors feel just like you. They use force to escape their economic situation, a prison whose walls are roughly as effecti…

Yes: Illegal emigration is always fine with me. Just not illegal immigration.

Because you apparently base your moral viewpoint around illigal immigration (rather than the other way round), why does the fact that it's illegal change whether it's right or not?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#449

Post by kolbe »

atomi wrote: post #428
kolbe wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just offering you counter arguments to the idea that the government doesn't give out resources to people. I'm sorry you can't handle one refutation without turning to emotional arguments. Another is Fannie Mae subsidizing housing. Another is public school. Another is protection under the law. Another is all public road/land use. The fact of the matter is that we have finite resources. And simply being a person in…

Speaking of emotional arguments, we're not all doomed. Again, a lot of those public services are paid for through taxes immigrants do pay into, like property taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, registration fees, and even income taxes. And again, their children are Americans by birthright so public education is an investment in Americans. http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/... http://thf_media.s3.…

I don't know what to say other than chill out. You have completely hijacked the original thread with your ill-argued cliche talking points.

The original statement was "I'm appalled by the need for statistics showing how "useful" immigrants are." Mine response is that it's a necessary framework. I in no way gave any conclusions about what I believe is the result of thinking in that framework, but you seem to harbor some sort of prejudice that makes it so you've assumed what I think.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#450

Post by [deleted] »

icu wrote: post #269
dragonwriter wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two example policies (chosen because they were the first two in a Google search, and show contrasting approaches to the general issue, not, e.g., because of any special relevance of the two institutions): http://registrar.calpoly.edu/content/stu_info/credit_byexam http://admissions.utah.edu/apply/special-credit/challenge-a-...

Hi dragonwriter... I've visited both links and neither of them seem to be related to immigration and how limits to illegal immigration impacts pathways for legal immigration. Also I did a duckduckgo search (I don't use Google due to their TOS and my perception of their ethics) and could find nothing on the first page of results to support what you were saying which is why I asked. Please advise.

[deleted]
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