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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#421

Post by maerF0x0 »

ghurtado wrote: post #343
maerF0x0 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the problem is that we can't afford to "let them all in" I believe that cost per person in developed counties is very high and if the marginal person is not paying a large amount of taxes then they will "cost" the system. Think things like policing, schooling (for their kids), infrastructure usage, medical costs, administrative costs (documents, id, various "counting"), city services etc. etc. IMO we should allow i…

> IMO we should allow immigrants an option to fund these costs to jump the queue (eg, you can get a 4 yr visa for $500k or whatever). How many people do you know that pay $500k in taxes over 4 years? You may as well make the cost $500 million, you'll get the same number of applicants.

1) thats why "or whatever" followed 500k, it was an example number.

2) 500k taxes over 4 yrs is not the point, the point is to match (or even over charge for) the marginal systemic costs of that person entering the country. Not just a fee for applying for the visa but all the infrastructure and social support costs.

3) Actually there is kind of an entrepreneur system in place anyways. And they allow upto 10k per year https://www.uscis.gov/green-card/green-card-through-job/gree...

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#422

Post by ntelson1s »

masondixon wrote: post #354
cromwellian wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Than why so many leaked memos show that Bannon and Miller want to reduce family Visas for those already legally here? Why is Bannon and Miller's favorite novel a racist French book about Europe becoming less white? Why when Bannon was interviewed on radio he said he wanted to bring the numbers on legal immigration way down? You're fooling yourself if you think this is just about undocumented Mexicans, Muslims…

> Than why so many leaked memos show that Bannon and Miller want to reduce family Visas for those already legally here? From http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/3/1/14773298/mer... : "Reforming the immigration system to be more “merit-based” is predicated on the idea that some of these slots are going to the wrong immigrants — immigrants who don’t have as much to give the US as the US has to give them. Propon…

Get your facts outta here. Can't you see people are trying to force a perceived threat based on their feelings here?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#423

Post by ntelson1s »

cromwellian wrote: post #157
muninn_ wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the book was actually about was the worry that the France was losing its national identity, the framework upon which it was built was Christianity. They want to preserve that identity. I don't think it's about skin color, but about shared cultural values that they found to be appealing and necessary. As it happens, white people were those people. You could easily reverse those roles with any other skin color. Th…

Yes, tribalism is human nature, and we have done very many ugly things to one another because of it. Much of modern advancement in civil liberties and human rights have come about because of the recognition that human nature is flawed and we need to act to fight our worse instincts. I don't think we should sweep racism and xenophobia under the rug with the argument that "boys will be boys"

Yeah so let's regress to letting tribes in that don't support modern advancement and call anything otherwise bigotry.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#424

Post by hkmurakami »

throwaway743824 wrote: post #254
rdl wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful. The question is: where do you want to have the cutoff? I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), combined with a transparent and straightforward points-based system for mainly immigrant visas. I'd eliminate the inherent racism in the current system (penalizing India and China vs. Equatorial Gui…

"It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful." I think that's extremely hard in terms of startups. You're essentially expecting the government to select what is valuable and what isn't. I don't like unclear visa situations either, but I haven't really seen a country effectively implement "come here and do whatever for a bit as long as you can take care of yourself".…

E2 visa is a decent proxy for usefulness already.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#425

Post by pm90 »

masondixon wrote: post #375
pm90 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the "Illegals"... Rhetoric aside, as you pointed out, this is only the beginning. Authoritarians always need a scrapegoat to blame for "failed policies". Once one group is eliminated, on to another.

> Authoritarians Why do you think they are authoritarians. I don't get this. The right in the US is about freedom. The left is the part of authoritarianism. The progressive left especially has incredibly tight control of freedom of speech. Everything they don't like is called hate speech, all discussions are shut down, and PC terminology means that it doesn't matter what you say anymore, if you accidentally choose th…

Definition: favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.

I'm specifically referring to the current WH. It's authoritarian because it refuses to accept facts and wants to distort them to fit its own narrative. It will discredit the press if it does not "fall in line".

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#426

Post by Cyph0n »

ctdonath wrote: post #415
Cyph0n wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you didn't hear about people being asked about their religious affiliation, or POTUS himself noting on a radio show that Christians would get preferential treatment.

Religious persecution is a thing. If you're a normal adherent to the state-sponsored by-far-majority religion of a country, claiming refugee status via "violent religious persecution" is a stretch. If you're a rare adherent of a state-persecuted tiny-minority religion being violently exterminated with the tacit (if not declared) approval of the government, then you are exactly what refugee status via "violent religio…

So it's a Muslim ban, because the majority of potential immigrants from the targeted countries are Muslim.

But you have to admit that it got quite outrageous once they started removing LPRs and dual-citizens of foreign countries from inbound flights.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#427

Post by downandout »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

This article is protesting the idea of further limiting H1-B visas. Presumably most if not all H1-B recipients are "useful". The problem is that there is a massive amount of H1-B abuse, mostly on the part of the employers bringing them over here. Large, cut-rate contractors such as Infosys have abused the system to profit at the expense of Americans and highly qualified legal immigrants alike. Evidence of abuse is everywhere. Here are just a few examples:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/3004501/h1b/proof-that-h-1b...

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/top-10-companies-request-visa...

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/us/large-companies-game-h...

Legislation is needed to reform the system. I would be in favor of expanding the program if the widely abused loopholes were taken out.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#428

Post by atomi »

kolbe wrote: post #411
atomi wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is literally the least we can do. Or would you rather we deny emergency medical treatment and let people just die? They do pay sales taxes, rent payments (they have to live somewhere) that go towards property taxes and the majority also pay into social security which they will never qualify for. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrant... And by the way, many have kids that are Americans by b…

I'm just offering you counter arguments to the idea that the government doesn't give out resources to people. I'm sorry you can't handle one refutation without turning to emotional arguments. Another is Fannie Mae subsidizing housing. Another is public school. Another is protection under the law. Another is all public road/land use. The fact of the matter is that we have finite resources. And simply being a person in…

Speaking of emotional arguments, we're not all doomed.

Again, a lot of those public services are paid for through taxes immigrants do pay into, like property taxes, sales taxes, gas taxes, registration fees, and even income taxes. And again, their children are Americans by birthright so public education is an investment in Americans.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2016/oct/02/...

http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/pdf/sr133.pdf

We can argue resource allocation, entitlement programs but considering China has 1 billion more people with a land mass not much larger than ours, we're certainly not running out of space.

And if you gave them a pathway to amnesty it would be much easier to allocate entitlement programs and have common sense taxation.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#429

Post by ChemicalWarfare »

pj_mukh wrote: post #73
cromwellian wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Than why so many leaked memos show that Bannon and Miller want to reduce family Visas for those already legally here? Why is Bannon and Miller's favorite novel a racist French book about Europe becoming less white? Why when Bannon was interviewed on radio he said he wanted to bring the numbers on legal immigration way down? You're fooling yourself if you think this is just about undocumented Mexicans, Muslims…

This. so much this. Forget leaks, just stuff he's said in public is alarming enough including the fact that he takes issue with the headline OP posted here [1]. The book he keeps quoting is 'Camp of Saints' and you described it in the nicest way possible[2]. This man sets the agenda for the president :|. As an immigrant in America, if Bannon and Miller were removed, Trumps policies are not that much different from an…

>> if Bannon and Miller were removed, Trumps policies are not that much different from any other boilerplate republican.

First and foremost thing that is apparent about Trump's administration is the anti-globalist "america first" approach. It's not just the rhetoric either - he's acting on his promises of bringing american jobs back, addressing the trade deficit disparities, cutting down on the debt (US debt is down by almost 70 billion in the last 2 months) and so on.

This sets him apart not only from the Dems but also from the mainstream and rhino GOP which is why they publicly denounce him.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#430

Post by DiNovi »

rdl wrote: post #98
bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful. The question is: where do you want to have the cutoff? I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), combined with a transparent and straightforward points-based system for mainly immigrant visas. I'd eliminate the inherent racism in the current system (penalizing India and China vs. Equatorial Gui…

"building the wall" is racism....

regardless, the problem is if you are perceived as not wanting immigrants, the most skilled ones will go elsewhere, because they can.

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