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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#401

Post by masondixon »

moduspol wrote: post #112
TuringNYC wrote: post #41

The irony here: Some people see studies like this and think, wow, think of how much we'd lose if we didnt let in immigrants. Our economy would be smaller, we'd have fewer jobs, etc. Other people see studies like this and think, wow, only us locals should own, run, and be employed by these Billion-Dollar Startups. Bannon has explicitly noted this as a goal!

Some of us even see studies like this and think, wow, I wonder how many ways you can make headlines by framing arguments deceptively to support a pre-conceived world view!

Nicely said :)

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#402

Post by Cyph0n »

ctdonath wrote: post #302
Cyph0n wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the recent Muslim ban was anti-illegal immigrant? Hmm..

Snarky misconstrued labelling aside: Yes. Targeted countries chosen (and approved by prior President!) due to previously-acknowledged problems with the vetting process. Timeframe for the "ban" was limited & short. "Muslim" was not specified in any way.

Sounds like you didn't hear about people being asked about their religious affiliation, or POTUS himself noting on a radio show that Christians would get preferential treatment.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#403

Post by rdl »

senthil_rajasek wrote: post #396
rdl wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be hard to have an immigration system which is biased toward useful vs. not useful. The question is: where do you want to have the cutoff? I'm in favor of a solid border control regime (i.e. "build the wall"), combined with a transparent and straightforward points-based system for mainly immigrant visas. I'd eliminate the inherent racism in the current system (penalizing India and China vs. Equatorial Gui…

"A baseline of "not a felon, terrorist, etc." ..." Australia was a penal colony ... yet they seem to be doing fine for themselves now. My point is ... why change the rules of immigration from what existed in 1800s or early 1900s

1) welfare state -- "bad" immigrants impose higher costs now.

2) technology -- bad immigrants (in the form of terrorists) impose potentially existential costs now.

Also, in that period immigration was inherently racist, which I'd absolutely like to change. ("Chinese exclusion act", etc)

Economics have also changed; costs of migration into the US are far lower than before, and we are far richer than we were then, so it changed who would immigrate. I'd expect a remote, expensive to reach place with endless land and a shortage of labor to have different immigration policies than a rich country next to a poor country a short walk away.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#404

Post by jacquesm »

coldtea wrote: post #389
jacquesm wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claims to the contrary the map is not the territory and a country is not a house. Finally, a wall around a country is definitely not the same as a wall or fence around your house. Note that most dictatorships use walls around their 'houses' to keep the population in, not to keep others out. Note that countries that are bordering other countries with great wealth disparity are using walls to keep the wealth concentrat…

> Claims to the contrary the map is not the territory and a country is not a house I think you miss a "despite" or "notwithstanding" somewhere there. In any case, even though a country is indeed not a house in some ways (no ceiling for one), it is quite like a house in others -- a set of people live there, some where born there, others came later, but in any case, it's their house, they (and their parents and grandpa…

> I think you miss a "despite" or "notwithstanding" somewhere there.

No, I'm perfectly ok with what I wrote.

What I find interesting is that many people are perfectly ok with exploiting a poorer neighbor, but they definitely should stay on their side of the dotted line.

All this hoopla about illegal immigration, walls and repatriating jobs to the other side of that dotted line will have the exact opposite effect. Illegal immigration will go up.

It's akin to a chemistry process called osmosis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmosis

Since we're in broken analogy territory anyway, why not use another?

So, in osmosis you have a wall - which should be easy to identify as your border - and two liquids on either side with a varying concentration of some substance. Say 'wealth'.

Now for wealth to stop flowing from one side to the other you will have to reach some kind of equilibrium first.

The faster you reach that equilibrium the faster you no longer have to worry about 'illegal crossings of the wall'.

In the end that border wall never was about people: it was all about wealth, and possibly about the sharing of that wealth.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#405

Post by rdl »

differentView wrote: post #380
ghurtado wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Start running down the list of classic famous artists and you may be surprised at how many wouldn't have met those criteria at the time when they created their most important work.

Should artists be exempted from the basic requirement of being able to support themselves that we expect from people of other professions?

If the bar for "can support himself" is suitably low, someone could be an artist, immigrate to the US to work as an engineer or accountant or nurse, and be an artist. Once he can support himself through art (and is likely a citizen), then be a great artist full time.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#407

Post by jimmyk »

ryandrake wrote: post #233
bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

Wonder how many birthright US citizens who support this "useful/not-useful" immigration filter would pass if it were applied to themselves.

This reminds me of the quote: "Please accept my resignation. I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member".

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#408

Post by smdz »

By attracting and immigrating the best and brightest, the US actually does injustice towards its citizens.

And then its also an unfair act against other countries. The other countries that send immigrants technically stay poorer and weaker - because their talent is gone!!!

Make a choice - Do we want to keep pouring in the best and brightest from the globe - or Do we want to keep our citizens employed? - Can't have both in longer term. Keep it unsolved and something extreme might happen to resolve it.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#409

Post by rdl »

jacquesm wrote: post #301
JakeAl wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walls don't impact legal immigration. They only only impact the proportion of illegal immigrants that sneak across the border.

Yes, we really should put a stop to all those Americans sneaking across the border to work illegally in Mexico. /s > Walls don't impact legal immigration. Yes, they do. But not in a way that you would immediately recognize as linked so I'll forgive you. > They only only impact the proportion of illegal immigrants that sneak across the border. Yes, so they will cross legally and then disappear into illegality. Same th…

Easier alternative to "make Mexico wealthy" is "make America poor."

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#410

Post by linkregister »

masondixon wrote: post #375
pm90 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the "Illegals"... Rhetoric aside, as you pointed out, this is only the beginning. Authoritarians always need a scrapegoat to blame for "failed policies". Once one group is eliminated, on to another.

> Authoritarians Why do you think they are authoritarians. I don't get this. The right in the US is about freedom. The left is the part of authoritarianism. The progressive left especially has incredibly tight control of freedom of speech. Everything they don't like is called hate speech, all discussions are shut down, and PC terminology means that it doesn't matter what you say anymore, if you accidentally choose th…

What legal/government-imposed consequences have arisen from the type of speech you are talking about?
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