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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#411

Post by kolbe »

atomi wrote: post #387
kolbe wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to the emergency care centers that aren't allowed to turn away anyone or else they will not receive medicare reimbursements.

That is literally the least we can do. Or would you rather we deny emergency medical treatment and let people just die? They do pay sales taxes, rent payments (they have to live somewhere) that go towards property taxes and the majority also pay into social security which they will never qualify for. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/illegal-immigrant... And by the way, many have kids that are Americans by b…

I'm just offering you counter arguments to the idea that the government doesn't give out resources to people. I'm sorry you can't handle one refutation without turning to emotional arguments.

Another is Fannie Mae subsidizing housing. Another is public school. Another is protection under the law. Another is all public road/land use.

The fact of the matter is that we have finite resources. And simply being a person inside the US's borders give you rights to these resources, and if we do not make sure that the return we get from the presence of the people we're letting in at least makes up the cost of bringing them in, then we are doomed.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#413

Post by wildmusings »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Just about every Western country legally favors immigration by the educated and successful. They use things like university degrees, job offers, published works, etc. to evaluate that.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#414

Post by ygaf »

jacquesm wrote: post #404
coldtea wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Claims to the contrary the map is not the territory and a country is not a house I think you miss a "despite" or "notwithstanding" somewhere there. In any case, even though a country is indeed not a house in some ways (no ceiling for one), it is quite like a house in others -- a set of people live there, some where born there, others came later, but in any case, it's their house, they (and their parents and grandpa…

> I think you miss a "despite" or "notwithstanding" somewhere there. No, I'm perfectly ok with what I wrote. What I find interesting is that many people are perfectly ok with exploiting a poorer neighbor, but they definitely should stay on their side of the dotted line. All this hoopla about illegal immigration, walls and repatriating jobs to the other side of that dotted line will have the exact opposite effect. Ill…

>No, I'm perfectly ok with what I wrote.

Because HNers will fill in the blanks for you?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#415

Post by ctdonath »

Cyph0n wrote: post #402
ctdonath wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snarky misconstrued labelling aside: Yes. Targeted countries chosen (and approved by prior President!) due to previously-acknowledged problems with the vetting process. Timeframe for the "ban" was limited & short. "Muslim" was not specified in any way.

Sounds like you didn't hear about people being asked about their religious affiliation, or POTUS himself noting on a radio show that Christians would get preferential treatment.

Religious persecution is a thing. If you're a normal adherent to the state-sponsored by-far-majority religion of a country, claiming refugee status via "violent religious persecution" is a stretch. If you're a rare adherent of a state-persecuted tiny-minority religion being violently exterminated with the tacit (if not declared) approval of the government, then you are exactly what refugee status via "violent religious persecution" is legally recognized for. Kind of hard to discern the difference without asking someone their religious affiliation.

ETA: Legitimate refugees, people actually being violently persecuted by the state for some aspect of their minority status, are unlikely to get proper vetting regardless of the quality of the vetting process, and 'tis quite humanitarian to take them in if they can be reasonably identified as such. Those not so persecuted are in the best position for their state to provide proper vetting, which if their state can't/won't provide proper vetting then we need to halt their immigration until reasonable vetting can be established. This has NOTHING to do with religion per se, especially when the allegedly discriminated-against group has over 5x as many members in other countries who can apply for properly-vetted visas without any difficulty.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#416

Post by nostrademons »

masondixon wrote: post #375
pm90 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the "Illegals"... Rhetoric aside, as you pointed out, this is only the beginning. Authoritarians always need a scrapegoat to blame for "failed policies". Once one group is eliminated, on to another.

> Authoritarians Why do you think they are authoritarians. I don't get this. The right in the US is about freedom. The left is the part of authoritarianism. The progressive left especially has incredibly tight control of freedom of speech. Everything they don't like is called hate speech, all discussions are shut down, and PC terminology means that it doesn't matter what you say anymore, if you accidentally choose th…

I think it's more accurate that both the extreme right and extreme left are the parties of authoritarianism, and the center is about freedom. Leftists want to police what you say, what you think, how you earn your living, and who you associate with. Rightists want to police what you believe, what you do with your body, what substances you inhale, and how you travel. Both sides would do well with a chill pill and the idea that people could be or believe differently than you without being a threat.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#417

Post by sctb »

rs1234 wrote: post #12

Immigrants founded 99.99% of all US startups (except for a few casinos)

It's so important to the discussion quality on Hacker News that users comment civilly and substantively, which is why we bring ourselves to repeat it so often. They're related, too: unsubstantiveness leaves much room for comments to be read as uncivil, even if they weren't intended that way.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#418

Post by jacquesm »

ygaf wrote: post #414
jacquesm wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you miss a "despite" or "notwithstanding" somewhere there. No, I'm perfectly ok with what I wrote. What I find interesting is that many people are perfectly ok with exploiting a poorer neighbor, but they definitely should stay on their side of the dotted line. All this hoopla about illegal immigration, walls and repatriating jobs to the other side of that dotted line will have the exact opposite effect. Ill…

>No, I'm perfectly ok with what I wrote. Because HNers will fill in the blanks for you?

No, because there are no blanks, adding either of those words would change the meaning of the sentence in a way that I don't support.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#419

Post by erispoe »

nilkn wrote: post #194
erispoe wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the problem is that we can't afford to "let them all in" Why is that? I'm genuinely curious. Are you making an economic or a cultural argument? On the economic side, there's no evidence that immigration, even mass immigration, has any negative consequences, apart from some more competition at the very low end of salaries, which should obviously be addressed. By and large, immigrants are net contributors to the econ…

> there's no evidence that immigration, even mass immigration, has any negative consequences, apart from some more competition at the very low end of salaries So, in other words, there is evidence that it does have negative consequences? I myself don't know either way. I just think that, if what you write is true, an impact at the low end of the salary spectrum isn't something to brush off as if it's nothing and does…

There's no consensus on that, compared to other areas where there is consensus that immigration, as a whole is either a net benefit or, at worse, neutral. There are, however, individual cases where native born individuals will suffer losses. The answer is better access to retraining.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#420

Post by jacquesm »

rdl wrote: post #409
jacquesm wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we really should put a stop to all those Americans sneaking across the border to work illegally in Mexico. /s > Walls don't impact legal immigration. Yes, they do. But not in a way that you would immediately recognize as linked so I'll forgive you. > They only only impact the proportion of illegal immigrants that sneak across the border. Yes, so they will cross legally and then disappear into illegality. Same th…

Easier alternative to "make Mexico wealthy" is "make America poor."

You're working on it.

Give it some time.

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