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Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

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Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#221

Post by xapata »

dmix wrote: post #189
plingamp wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he maybe referring to this: Bannon responded: “When two-thirds or three-quarters of the CEOs in Silicon Valley are from South Asia or from Asia, I think . . . ” he didn’t finish his sentence. “A country is more than an economy. We’re a civic society.” http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/13653490/steve-bannon-tru...

From the Verge article: > While Bannon didn’t explicitly say anything against immigrants, he seemed to hint at the idea of a white nationalist identity with the phrase “civic society.” That seems like a pretty big jump from him citing a common stat to Verge accusing him of calling for a white nationalist state. He didn't say anything close to that. He may hold nationalist ideas where he wants more American's founding…

Knowing that explicit white nationalism could be problematic, a white nationalist might speak in code. This is similar to the way someone might speak in code when discussing criminal activity, since it's illegal to surveil non-criminal discussion. The question in court is whether a reasonable person would interpret a conversation as normal speech or criminal code. "The eagle flies at midnight," is obvious code. Other speech is not so clear.

> It could easily just as much imply that he just wants to see more Americans being successful founders in the tech industry in addition to Asians?

First, Asians can be and often are Americans.

Second, why would Bannon bring up this point that more "Americans" should be successful founders? Is it that our schools are failing? No, because Asians attend the same schools. Ah, I've got it. Perhaps there's a cultural problem with white anglo-saxon protestants: anti-intellectualism and anti-education. Is that what Bannon is getting at?

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#223

Post by surfmike »

qaq wrote: post #147
oh_sigh wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll assume you're talking about Brin when including Google in your post. He was 6 years old when he came to America. Maybe that is what is important. Did anyone pull stats on the value of companies started by immigrants who came to America already fully grown?

Right so if his parents did not move he would've entered US by himself at 6, same thing for Jobs.

Excellent point. If you include first generation immigrants I'm sure the impact of immigrants is even greater.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#224

Post by Mikeb85 »

VikingCoder wrote: post #208
Mikeb85 wrote: post #190

Good study and all, but I think it misses the point of the current sentiment in the US. Regardless, yes, immigrants are more likely to found businesses than natives. Whether or not their businesses become billion dollar startups because of their efforts or venture capitalists is another question, but yes, they help the economy (As much as those who are a drag on it? Who knows). I wrote a lengthy post about the effect…

> Human capital flight is the single biggest obstacle to development for the third world. Citation needed.

There's a million studies done about it. Also, the Wiki link I posted contained lots of links and references.

Anyhow, here's one: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTAFRREGTOPTEIA/Resource...

Quote from it: Weakness in human capital and particularly skill deficiency is a drag on investment and growth in Africa. Progress in overcoming shortages of skilled and trained manpower seems to be disappointingly slow, despite substantial resources devoted by both governments and donors to this effort during the last three decades (OED, 1994). This deficiency is sustained at the same time that Africa is losing a very significant proportion of its skilled and professional manpower to other markets and increasingly depending on expatriates for many vital functions.

Edit - here's another: http://www.sesric.org/files/article/491.pdf

Relevant quotes:

OIC countries face multiple challenges in achieving their development goals and reducing the gap with developed countries; one of the main challenges is the plight of human capital flight or what is known as brain drain.

In recent times, brain drain has been exacerbated by globalization which has increased people mobility across country boundaries (see Iredale, 2001; Shenkar, 2001; Stalker, 2000). Furthermore, the internationalization of professions and professional labor market has led to an increase in the level of mobility and thus brain drain as documented in the works of Carr et al. (2005) and Iredale (2001)

Like I said, this is a well known, well understood phenomenon. Hell, a generation ago the Canadian government was trying to stop brain drain to the US since it was a drag on growth.

Edit2

http://web.pop.psu.edu/projects/help_archive/help.pop.psu.ed...

A little more academic (ie. more math-y and economics-y).

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#225

Post by elastic_church »

GrinningFool wrote: post #85
elastic_church wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the illegals but I didn't speak up because my 401k has been making massive gains and this whole administration has been awesome for me but I can't say that out loud in California because people are still imagining a reason to lose their minds while the checks and balances are working out as intended the whole time!

Given the current composition of Congress and appointees, checks and balances are hanging on by a thread at the moment. That is what has people worried.

I know right, especially after Preet Bharara and all those judges got fired! Can't wait for this week's episode I'm on the edge of my seat

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#226

Post by nilkn »

xapata wrote: post #195
TheGirondin wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a surprise, a request for citation of an outrageous anti-Trump claim results in an avalanche of irrelevant links.

> outrageous ... irrelevant The citation seems quite clear to me. Perhaps I'm missing something. Was Bannon not complaining about the number of ethnic minorities?

A generous interpretation of Bannon would be that he simply wants to see more domestic workers founding successful tech companies. He might see these statistics not as a reason to get rid of ethnic minorities, but rather as a sign that something about American culture is discouraging Americans from entrepreneurism.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#227

Post by ctdonath »

For the eleventy-millionth time:

Most of those accused of being "anti-immigrant" aren't against immigrants, but are against illegal immigrants. There must be an orderly process to entry, primarily to prevent criminals & diseases, and also to keep the numbers assimilate-able.

The headline alone seems designed to invoke consternation where none existed, or to construe a common position as anti-immigrant which isn't.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#228

Post by kashkhan »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #32

One of the basic premises of anti-immigrant policies is that you can somehow influence the ratio of "useful" vs "not-useful" immigrants. Apart from the idea of sorting people into useful and useless being inhumane, it also seems to be counterproductive. It looks like every kind of screening of immigrants will deter the more desirable ones, as far as that determination is possible on their arrival at all.

Immigrants are people whose lives matter. the should be given equal rights and equal value, because even if they are deemed "useless", their kids or grandkids might contribute to the future of humanity.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#229

Post by muninn_ »

erispoe wrote: post #178
muninn_ wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I mean, the problem is that we can't afford to "let them all in", so how do you decide who to let in? An immigration policy that is held be numerous other countries that favors skilled immigrants seems to be reasonable. On the other hand, brain drain. How will those countries continue to get better and enjoy a modern standard of living if all the smart people leave?

> the problem is that we can't afford to "let them all in" Why is that? I'm genuinely curious. Are you making an economic or a cultural argument? On the economic side, there's no evidence that immigration, even mass immigration, has any negative consequences, apart from some more competition at the very low end of salaries, which should obviously be addressed. By and large, immigrants are net contributors to the econ…

It's an economic and cultural one, but not in the terms you have described.

So first you have to decide whether you support completely open borders, or borders. At that point we're arguing about who to let in and how many. Right? So my first comment "can't let them all in" is related to open borders. It would be an unmitigated disaster for a country like the US to have an open border policy. I agree with you that immigrants are net positives. But the details of which are nuanced and worth discussing because the benefit isn't a simple more immigrants == better economy. There are other factors at play.

It's also a cultural argument. People don't like change. They really don't like abrupt change that appears that they have no control over, especially if it involves people with real or perceived different cultural values. These are simple facts of human nature. Mass migration of any people to any other location on earth will inevitably cause tension and conflict. The absolute wrong thing to do is to take a large group of immigrants and settle them in a mostly homogenous community. Again, there is a lot of discussion to be had here.

In regard to brain drain, I think you're flat out incorrect. People may take a vacation to see family, but there is a negligible amount of immigrants that are packing their bags and moving back to their country of origin for any reason. Coming and going between countries is just not happening. If you manage to get a US Visa you're hanging on to it. Softening of the number of visas issued just means more immigrants, not that they return with money and skills to their home countries.

The West probably needs a comprehensive, global effort to teach, support, and train people across the planet. Global warming, conflict, and a widening technology gap will only make things worse.

Re: Study: Immigrants Founded 51% of U.S. Billion-Dollar Startups

#230

Post by kolbe »

I'd be careful with this information. It did not serve German Jews in the 30's very well to emphasize the fact that they had become important elements of media, finance and science. Instead of showing appreciation, there was a backlash by Germans who felt they were being excluded from these things. It's even easier to see how that same misguided victim sentiment could be applied to immigrants "taking" the opportunities to create and own tech from American.
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