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Scotland to seek second independence referendum

bbc.com

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Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#171

Post by fnord123 »

falsedan wrote: post #107
jankotek wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scotland is fairly small country, starting their own currency does not make much sense. Monte Negro is using euro, and is not even part of EU yet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro_and_the_euro

Scotland already has three banks issuing their own bank notes (backed by GBP on deposit in their vaults). Independence wouldn't change that, except that the names on the notes would have to be changed from Pounds Stirling.

>Independence wouldn't change that, except that the names on the notes would have to be changed from Pounds Stirling.

Pounds Sterling.

Stirling is a city in Scotland.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#172

Post by pbhjpbhj »

rwmj wrote: post #160
sambeau wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm a child of English parents who was born in Wales but grew up in Scotland. I have Scottish and English children, in-laws and cousins. I have a family home in Scotland but I currently live in England. My children live in England and Scotland. Some of us live in Italy. What a fucking mess of a total fucking disaster. None of this needed to happen and it's a total nightmare for me and my family. If this g…

Part of the hippocratic oath is "first do no harm". We could usefully extend that to politicians. The UK government has, in 7 or 2 years depending on how you count, set the UK on a path to destruction -- and it was all very predictable.

>The UK government //

That's short-hand of course for the "UK people's democratically expressed will".

FWIW I don't vote conservative, nor support Brexit; but we can't solely blame the elite cabals - as this sort of phrasing tends to do - the demos are complicit.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#173

Post by pjc50 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #143
df3 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't a speedy entry process be negotiated? My guess though is that the EU won't be keen on the UK splitting up and thus won't encourage it by providing Scotland a quick ascension. This is also a wonderful bargaining chip for the EU to play against Theresa May in negotiating the terms of the UK's exit.

> This is also a wonderful bargaining chip for the EU to play against Theresa May in negotiating the terms of the UK's exit. Yup. "You lot can leave, but we'll take Scotland. Your choice."

Not to mention Gibraltar - everyone's overlooked this tiny rock, but Gibraltar is entirely dependent on EU freedom of movement and voted very heavily remain. It's not a coincidence that there was a Gibraltar diplomatic mission to the SNP conference, although I'm not entirely clear what they wanted other than solidarity against Brexit.

Maybe Spain would let in Scotland and claim Gibraltar as their own?

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#174

Post by cmdkeen »

ruairidhwm wrote: post #142
pm90 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting to see what might happen post Brexit if Scotland does become Independent and stays in the EU. London has been a great place for International companies to set up shop to access the EU market and labor force...I wonder if they will simply relocate to Scotland? England only business matters could also be handled from within Scotland itself.

It'd be very easy to set up parallel legal structures in Scotland and then just transfer the business up. You possibly wouldn't even need to relocate.

True but it is a different legal system. London is used because everyone knows and likes the English legal system and the English courts. Scottish courts and the Scottish legal system aren't worse, just different. Wanting to do business with a contract using Scots law is a bit like trying to raise VC while incorporated in Maine. Nothing wrong with it, just not the way everyone is used to. The Scottish legal community has nothing like the density of commercial lawyers or the experience.

Not saying it wouldn't be doable for some businesses. If however your business relies on doing anything new/innovative in a legal sense then that is one reason why London is an attractive to be based. That is a big part of why "The City" is such a force, and legal services are a decent chunk of the UK's service exports.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#175

Post by pizzetta »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #168
sambeau wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I'm a child of English parents who was born in Wales but grew up in Scotland. I have Scottish and English children, in-laws and cousins. I have a family home in Scotland but I currently live in England. My children live in England and Scotland. Some of us live in Italy. What a fucking mess of a total fucking disaster. None of this needed to happen and it's a total nightmare for me and my family. If this g…

>Disclaimer: I'm a child of English parents who was born in Wales but grew up in Scotland. I have Scottish and English children, in-laws and cousins. I have a family home in Scotland but I currently live in England. My children live in England and Scotland. Some of us live in Italy. // This may be an indication of the problem. To my view your opener should be "I'm a child of British parents, born in Britain and grew…

I think you may be reading too much into it. I think poster is using those labels to illustrate the issue rather than for the purpose of asserting nationalism.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#176

Post by gumby »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #91
byefruit wrote: post #6

What a legacy Cameron has left. Alienation of our nearest neighbours and the likely dissolution of the Union. It's also looking likely that Brexit will cause problems for the Northern Ireland peace arrangement.

>> It's also looking likely that Brexit will cause problems for the Northern Ireland peace arrangement. This is the first time I've felt a border poll in Northern Ireland is a possibility. The recent election resulted in a huge swing in power and a hard border with the south would be devastating for a lot of people regardless of political persuasion. It'll be interesting to see how each part of the UK ends up in 5-10…

> It'll be interesting to see how each part of the UK ends up in 5-10 years time.

NI could ally with Scotland and remain a United Kingdom in the EU. Then it would be England and Wales leaving the Union.

I must admit this is more of a board game fantasy than an actual possibility given the time and I/NI politics, but is amusing to consider.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#177

Post by JamesMcMinn »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #161
JamesMcMinn wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are almost continual attacks on Sturgeon from Unionists in Scotland (and from England) - read any of the comment sections on the BBC (it doesn't even have to be about Scotland...) and you'll see a lot of hate for her - everything from claims that she's making a power grab for herself, to calling her one of the krankies. It's a sad state of affairs. Having said that, I think most people would agree she's one of…

I believe the Tories size as opposition party was from an election before Brexit (and Trump obviously, this is also a referendum on him and his administration whether or not its explicit). Just how popular are Ruth Davidson and her party now?

They're doing better now as a party than before Brexit, but not for the reasons you might think.

The Labour party have traditionally been very strong in Scotland - the Labour party was a party for life, and many people only every voted Labour. However, this has all changed over the past year, as they have effectively self-imploded to the point of uselessness. I cannot overstate how much of a breakdown there has been within the Labour party, and people who had previously only ever voted Labour are now voting differently.

I'd argue that much of the Conservative party's gains have come from people who will simply no longer vote for Labour, rather than a move towards the Conservatives themselves.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#178

Post by mrec »

pjc50 wrote: post #128
mrec wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that still true? AIUI the Stability and Growth Pact [1] requires EU members to limit their deficits to 3% of GDP, and Scotland's deficit in 2016 was approaching 10% after North Sea oil revenues collapsed. Right now it's only fiscal transfers from England via the Barnett formula keeping Scottish spending afloat, and neither spending cuts nor tax rises are traditional political winners. Which is not to say it's impo…

Doesn't the stability & growth pack only apply to Euro membership? Most EU countries aren't within that 3% anyway.

No, it applies to all EU member states, although many of them (including France and Germany) routinely ignore it with no consequences.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#179

Post by kingmanaz »

lessisntmore wrote: post #113
Someone1234 wrote: post #100

Disclaimer: I'm English. One can hardly blame them. I was a unionist during the first referendum simply because I thought we were stronger together and felt that the Scottish made the UK as a whole more liberal (which, to be clear, is a GOOD thing). But after Brexit one cannot blame or criticise them for wanting to leave. I want to leave too! If their choice is being part of a fairly progressive EU or a conservative/…

Can you elaborate on why England is a sinking ship? I ask because you're not the first person I've heard say that, but apart from a referendum 6 months ago, what has changed?

Because "sinking ship" is a line often repeated by the West's globalist media monopolies and, unfortunately, most consumers of opinion are in a rush to agree with their televisions.

Re: Scotland to seek second independence referendum

#180

Post by daleharvey »

sambeau wrote: post #146
Someone1234 wrote: post #100

Disclaimer: I'm English. One can hardly blame them. I was a unionist during the first referendum simply because I thought we were stronger together and felt that the Scottish made the UK as a whole more liberal (which, to be clear, is a GOOD thing). But after Brexit one cannot blame or criticise them for wanting to leave. I want to leave too! If their choice is being part of a fairly progressive EU or a conservative/…

Disclaimer: I'm a child of English parents who was born in Wales but grew up in Scotland. I have Scottish and English children, in-laws and cousins. I have a family home in Scotland but I currently live in England. My children live in England and Scotland. Some of us live in Italy. What a fucking mess of a total fucking disaster. None of this needed to happen and it's a total nightmare for me and my family. If this g…

As a Scot I will be voting for independence in the spirit that you and your family will be welcome to live and work in Scotland, not certain what the claim to passports will be but if half of England qualifies then all the better (not really sure we if we wouldnt want the entire of England to qualify).

As for the economics I am not too worried. A 15bn shortfall sounds exaggerated but hey given the worse case Trident is a 205bn cost that dissapears and it is not the only one. rUK doesnt fund Scotland out of some kind heartedness, Scotland has a solid industry and a government that has shown to use its income to prioritise social services and an independent Scotland within the EU immediately becomes an extremely attractive place for all those international companies looking for a nice place to base their EU trace (a lot of which may just need to drive up a few hours from England)

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