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How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

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Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#411

Post by stctgion »

monodeldiablo wrote: post #410
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hidden transactions are a problem in any somewhat free economy, whether it's insurance, club dues, auto payments to service providers, or taxes. The usual sales point is that "But you don't have to think about them!" and the problem is that you never think about them -- when you should. That's not saying taxes should be onerous or deliberately painful -- any more than paying your bank's monthly fees should be onerous…

Nobody's advocating taxes as "hidden" transactions. You used the example of your bank's monthly fees... which is far less transparent than this suggestion. My bank simply emails me a reminder to check my account with them once per month. It doesn't allow me to contest or correct their accounting at all. Your fear -- that by removing the hassle of tax preparation, people will dwell in blissful ignorance of their tax b…

Banks monthly fees?

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#412

Post by monodeldiablo »

chongli wrote: post #390
Gustomaximus wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad is there is an opportunity cost of dollars spent. And the US could likely still dominate global firepower rankings at half the current spend, meanwhile this saving could significantly improve the education or health system with that money. Or reduce the tax burden on people. Or simply bank it to reduce the debt and burden of repayment for future years. Lots you could do with hundreds of billions.

The US operates on the principle that it must outspend the next 2 countries in military spending. It's an insurance policy in case say, Russia and China team up against the US.

Which is madness, of course. Because spending twice as much doesn't necessarily mean Americans see twice the value. I can easily spend twice as much on a worse car than my neighbor owns.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#413

Post by colde »

Hermel wrote: post #318
chasing wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I love paying taxes. Not because I like having less money in my bank account, but because I understand what paying taxes represents.

In what country are you paying taxes? And is your tax rate above or below 30%? Based on anecdotal evidence, I think that people paying more than 30% rarely ever "love" paying taxes. Below that, it seems to feel much more ok (I'm also below 30% and - while I'm not enthusiastic about paying taxes - it feels like a fair deal).

Let me add another anecdote here. I live in Denmark, which together with Sweden has some of the highest marginal tax rates. I am certainly in the high end of income, and i am happy to pay my taxes.

First of all, it means supporting a robust social system, that have provided treatment for my family member's cancer for free. Something that would likely have resulted in bankruptcy in the US, prior to ACA.

Secondly, being in the high end of the tax rate, means i have a high income as well - and it seems only fair that i pay more in taxes than people who make very little to begin with. Society has to function, and let's make the broadest shoulders bear the largest burden.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#414

Post by monodeldiablo »

tracker1 wrote: post #354
PeterStuer wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with taxes, just with the ways they are being spent.

I have a problem with the rate, collection and spending of taxes. I'd love to see us move away from property and income taxes... Income taxes are at least technically a tax on trade though. I'm not quite sure what the answer is, to be honest. I've just seen so much waste, it sickens me.

Come up with an alternative that's better and I'll happily support it. The problem is that too many people are comparing the current system -- taxes to fund governments -- with a nonexistent utopia.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#416

Post by greedo »

arethuza wrote: post #399
simonh wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that isn't taxation, it's voting in people who approve that spending. UK tax payer here, so the specifics are different, but I have no problem paying my taxes. We have decent free health care, a capable and I think 'right sized' armed forces for our needs, competent policing and security services and my children get free education. If any of those things were not true I wouldn't necessarily want my t…

"I think 'right sized' armed forces for our needs" The UK armed forces do seem a bit top-heavy and our record when it comes to procurement is, by most accounts, appalling.

Right-sized? You have almost no tanks anymore, and the ones you do are 80's era. The Royal Navy is a shadow of a shadow navy. The RAF is woefully under-equipped to protect against Russian incursions.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#417

Post by mariojv »

foota wrote: post #121
xupybd wrote: post #97

I live in New Zealand. I don't have to file taxes if my income is a standard wage my tax payments are automatic. My employer deducts them from my wage and they are sent to the IRD (Our government tax dept). My student loan and super payments are also automatic. If there is anything wrong then at the end of the tax year I can file to correct things. I also get donations rebates, this is a one page form that lists all…

The United States has a complicated tax code because it attempts to make things more "fair" for some people. Some of these are things people like, such as deductions for people with children, paying mortage, etc. Some are more dubious.

One thing that makes it even more complex is state deductions. For example, in Massachusetts you can deduct rent payments to your landlord from your taxable income.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#418

Post by TulliusCicero »

dennis_jeeves wrote: post #409
TulliusCicero wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether income tax is generally acceptable is a much broader (and philosophical) topic than the simpler question of whether it should be simpler to handle (obviously yes unless you make money from its complexity).

In that case the debate would never end. Even before we get down to tax complexity, how do we decide if 10% of income as tax is good enough, versus 20%? Notice the rabbit hole of arguments that one can get sucked into.

> Even before we get down to tax complexity, how do we decide if 10% of income as tax is good enough,

Why would we have to do that? The reality is that we already have an income tax, and we can definitely simply its filing process without changing its current rates.

So far this sounds like a standard libertarian tactic where you try to turn every debate on political policy specifics into a debate around whether government should be doing anything at all. It's not any different than internet marxists who, given a topic that revolves around business, will always reply "well X should just handled by government anyway FULL COMMUNISM NOW". It's completely unproductive and borderline trolling.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#419

Post by josefresco »

Gustomaximus wrote: post #324
ruleabidinguser wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why precisely is having the worlds largest military bad? Do you think it doesnt add any value? It seems theres a lot of people outside of America who'd like to see it shrunk for very bad reasons. Why not keep the military and solve our problems without it? We need it to be safe now, and until we've already solved our problems, we'll still need it. Obviously it doesn't always work well and it definitely causes problem…

The bad is there is an opportunity cost of dollars spent. And the US could likely still dominate global firepower rankings at half the current spend, meanwhile this saving could significantly improve the education or health system with that money. Or reduce the tax burden on people. Or simply bank it to reduce the debt and burden of repayment for future years. Lots you could do with hundreds of billions.

"the US could likely still dominate global firepower rankings at half the current spend"

True, but just winning a war or conflict is not an ideal outcome. Overwhelming advantage not only prevents conflict from occurring, it also assures that casualties are low in even low intensity / regional conflicts.

Re: How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing (2013)

#420

Post by josefresco »

kobeya wrote: post #288
ruleabidinguser wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why precisely is having the worlds largest military bad? Do you think it doesnt add any value? It seems theres a lot of people outside of America who'd like to see it shrunk for very bad reasons. Why not keep the military and solve our problems without it? We need it to be safe now, and until we've already solved our problems, we'll still need it. Obviously it doesn't always work well and it definitely causes problem…

Having the largest military in reserve? No problem with that, personally. Having them used as they are now and deployments in the recent past, not so much.

A large military "in reserve" becomes stagnant, and unable to operate in new real world conflicts. Look at the Vietnam war, or the current conflict in the Ukraine. Tactics change, and large militaries bent on keeping their swollen budgets in tact are poor at responding to emerging threats.

My point is that these smaller conflicts (albeit mostly misguided) are useful to guide and reform strategy, tactics and spending.

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